The Centurion rework | Forums

[EvoX.]

Very well done. This is where I admit my pessimism was wrong. Almost every issue that he had was touched upon and improved:

+ Jab 1 and 3 track well enough, the forward movement is very admirable
+ The mixup cannot be backwalked + dodged + rolled. You can roll away from it on orange, but this is vulnerable to feint-GB as well as Eagle's Fury on a read
+ The mixup is immune to all backstep attacks, the level 1 Jab just tracks and hits. Best case scenario you do a heavy (that can be feint-GB'd) and unfavorably trade with a 42 damage Eagle's Talons. In my opinion, Kiri should receive the same treatment on her Kick. Simply increase its forward movement and that option select that is plaguing her mixup is severely weaker.
+ Target-swappable zone and Jab (they either figured this out themselves or they actually read Raime and mine's suggestion)
+ Legion's Kick was actually touched, I thought for sure they were going to leave it terrible. I'm content with it, there's no reason for him to be a Conq when he has other strengths. Still immune to GB thanks to heavy, it also seems to have better range.
+ Eagle's Fury was actually touched, it's got good range and can catch rollers
+ His neutral heavy feints... I almost can't believe they remembered and made them better. They feel like Gladiator's now, or at least above average
+ His point-blank forward and back throws were fixed, allowing him to get the fully charged heavy on a wall splat every time
+ HA on the full charge Jab was a great touch, has already saved me a dozen times
+ Pretty fast forward walk and good forward dodge range
+ All delays that didn't need to be there were removed

The cons I've found so far:

- He still has a 400ms Guardbreak on anything other than a buffered Jab feint. Feinting is supposed to speed up GB to 300ms, but if you hold the Jab for even just a bit, it comes out at 400ms.
- Level 2 Jab does not seem to have any tracking, unlike Warden's bash, at least from the limited testing I've done. A committed level 2 seems useless.
- OOS punishes. He went from the hero with quite literally the strongest to the hero with quite literally the weakest. 42 damage on a throw, 57 on an OOS parry. I guess it's supposed to be balanced out from his OOS pressure, but that ends as soon as he hits a full Jab. Warden's doesn't, but hey, we can't all be as oppressive.

Overall I'm satisfied and still surprised that they bothered with some of these changes. I've worked around far worse with him than the cons I listed these past years, so I'll work around those as well. Good job.

*Unrelated note: Test Your Mettle seems to be functioning with the TG changes for some reason.

[Tyrjo]

Good write up man!

[Sweaty_Sock]

Im not really sold on it, dodging is an extremely effective counter and the removal of the guaranteed charged bash seems a poor trade off for the moves on offer.

Seems that a wall splat/charged heavy is worth 30 damage, with no effective followup as the uncharged bash is dodgable, the light is dodgable on the same bash timing, the sword is stuck in chain finisher and cant get into an appropriate feint and GB is chained as a bash etc. All you can do is charge a bash, which gives off way to many warden/hito vibes than the game needed and reduces the offense to a single boring, duplicated style.

Hes just been turned into another start charging the 50/50 champs that riddle the game, except the efforts and mixups required get you pathetic damage in proportion to his own HP (and in exchange you get the bash feint on reaction GB) - problems are you deal some damage and back off with him due to the massive stamina costs sunk into mixups, which opens his tiny HP pool up for the massive damage combos that can be thrown his way

His forward leap needed to start chains, and his kick is still useless against any competent opponent outside of a one off 'surprise'. The feint on the bash is a lazy implementation of a system that needed to be toned down on warden and hito not spread to more characters. His bash tracking just needed to be tweaked to stop 1 timing dodging all & he needed some better tools to open up a turtle, such as being able to bash off having a light blocked

Overall it saddens me to see this as the overdue rework, lack of imagination or real care and just copying other moves from other champs in the game.

The changes to the zone were just common sense and should have been done about 18 months ago, so I cant even applaud the obvious being done late as an 'improvement'.

I might need to sink more time into him, but the lack of finding a single cent in duals speaks volumes on a freshly reworked champ

EDIT: maybe he will feel more viable for me when the stamina/damage fixes go live (not the first time champs are done with future changes in mind)

[Lunamaria2020]

Im not really sold on it, dodging is an extremely effective counter and the removal of the guaranteed charged bash seems a poor trade off for the moves on offer.

Seems that a wall splat/charged heavy is worth 30 damage, with no effective followup as the uncharged bash is dodgable, the light is dodgable on the same bash timing, the sword is stuck in chain finisher and cant get into an appropriate feint and GB is chained as a bash etc. All you can do is charge a bash, which gives off way to many warden/hito vibes than the game needed and reduces the offense to a single boring, duplicated style.

Hes just been turned into another start charging the 50/50 champs that riddle the game, except the efforts and mixups required get you pathetic damage in proportion to his own HP (and in exchange you get the bash feint on reaction GB) - problems are you deal some damage and back off with him due to the massive stamina costs sunk into mixups, which opens his tiny HP pool up for the massive damage combos that can be thrown his way

His forward leap needed to start chains, and his kick is still useless against any competent opponent outside of a one off 'surprise'. The feint on the bash is a lazy implementation of a system that needed to be toned down on warden and hito not spread to more characters. His bash tracking just needed to be tweaked to stop 1 timing dodging all & he needed some better tools to open up a turtle, such as being able to bash off having a light blocked

Overall it saddens me to see this as the overdue rework, lack of imagination or real care and just copying other moves from other champs in the game.

The changes to the zone were just common sense and should have been done about 18 months ago, so I cant even applaud the obvious being done late as an 'improvement'.

I might need to sink more time into him, but the lack of finding a single cent in duals speaks volumes on a freshly reworked champ

EDIT: maybe he will feel more viable for me when the stamina/damage fixes go live (not the first time champs are done with future changes in mind)

how do you deal with turtle without bash like warden's or bp's? And now cent's ?

[Qoissant]

Im not really sold on it, dodging is an extremely effective counter and the removal of the guaranteed charged bash seems a poor trade off for the moves on offer.

Seems that a wall splat/charged heavy is worth 30 damage, with no effective followup as the uncharged bash is dodgable, the light is dodgable on the same bash timing, the sword is stuck in chain finisher and cant get into an appropriate feint and GB is chained as a bash etc. All you can do is charge a bash, which gives off way to many warden/hito vibes than the game needed and reduces the offense to a single boring, duplicated style.

Hes just been turned into another start charging the 50/50 champs that riddle the game, except the efforts and mixups required get you pathetic damage in proportion to his own HP (and in exchange you get the bash feint on reaction GB) - problems are you deal some damage and back off with him due to the massive stamina costs sunk into mixups, which opens his tiny HP pool up for the massive damage combos that can be thrown his way

His forward leap needed to start chains, and his kick is still useless against any competent opponent outside of a one off 'surprise'. The feint on the bash is a lazy implementation of a system that needed to be toned down on warden and hito not spread to more characters. His bash tracking just needed to be tweaked to stop 1 timing dodging all & he needed some better tools to open up a turtle, such as being able to bash off having a light blocked

Overall it saddens me to see this as the overdue rework, lack of imagination or real care and just copying other moves from other champs in the game.

The changes to the zone were just common sense and should have been done about 18 months ago, so I cant even applaud the obvious being done late as an 'improvement'.

I might need to sink more time into him, but the lack of finding a single cent in duals speaks volumes on a freshly reworked champ

EDIT: maybe he will feel more viable for me when the stamina/damage fixes go live (not the first time champs are done with future changes in mind)

I give the rework 2/5 which is the rating i'd give almost any rework they have put out in the past year.

A lot of people complain about the vortex BS that warden sucks you into, a lot of people hate vortigers extremely effective ability to bash light spam. So in response they add both of them to one hero, spend 8 months making new animations for said hero and then essentially sell it to people. This rework made him significantly more powerful but it makes him just awful to play against.

As usual, it is fantastically lazy and boring

[EvoX.]

Good write up man!

Thanks.

Im not really sold on it, dodging is an extremely effective counter and the removal of the guaranteed charged bash seems a poor trade off for the moves on offer.

Seems that a wall splat/charged heavy is worth 30 damage, with no effective followup as the uncharged bash is dodgable, the light is dodgable on the same bash timing, the sword is stuck in chain finisher and cant get into an appropriate feint and GB is chained as a bash etc. All you can do is charge a bash, which gives off way to many warden/hito vibes than the game needed and reduces the offense to a single boring, duplicated style.

Dodging is just as effective as it is against the other 3 unreactable heroes. You either guess right and get your punish, or you don't and eat damage. Not sure what you mean by ''dodging is extremely effective''. How an earth is an unreactable mixup an ''uneffective followup''? All you can do is definitely not a charged bash, you have the kick which is not easy to react to when delayed, leading into his mixup, which can be feinted at any point and has two dodge timings on top of it, you have your variable timed heavies that are difficult to parry and stop him from accessing his mixup, and you have the UB heavy. I don't see what else he should have considering most others don't have even a part of that.

Hes just been turned into another start charging the 50/50 champs that riddle the game

There're two other heroes with such a mixup - Warden and Hitokiri. Shaolin is also unreactable, but he gets reset on a hit. I fail to see how 3 heroes out of 27 counts as riddling the game.

except the efforts and mixups required get you pathetic damage in proportion to his own HP (and in exchange you get the bash feint on reaction GB) - problems are you deal some damage and back off with him due to the massive stamina costs sunk into mixups, which opens his tiny HP pool up for the massive damage combos that can be thrown his way

Somewhat agreed here. Although this is diminished to a degree if you adopt a part of Warden's optimal playstyle - threaten fully charged Jabs constantly and alter between feinting last second or letting them go, only let an occasional uncharged one go rarely, to keep the opponent guessing. Since just like Warden you can react to the enemy dodging or not before you decide to feint or commit, this is safer than usual.

His forward leap needed to start chains, and his kick is still useless against any competent opponent outside of a one off 'surprise'. The feint on the bash is a lazy implementation of a system that needed to be toned down on warden and hito not spread to more characters. His bash tracking just needed to be tweaked to stop 1 timing dodging all & he needed some better tools to open up a turtle, such as being able to bash off having a light blocked

His forward leap leads into his mixup, so any roller caught by it is right back at his starting point, except with half stamina. Kick is not useless. From reading the rest of this, it seems like you want him nerfed, not buffed, because removing the feint option would be a massive downgrade.

Overall it saddens me to see this as the overdue rework, lack of imagination or real care and just copying other moves from other champs in the game.

I agree that it lacks imagination, however, I would much prefer a copied kit that works to an imaginative one that doesn't. I've had enough of that throughout the years.

I give the rework 2/5 which is the rating i'd give almost any rework they have put out in the past year.

A lot of people complain about the vortex BS that warden sucks you into, a lot of people hate vortigers extremely effective ability to bash light spam. So in response they add both of them to one hero, spend 8 months making new animations for said hero and then essentially sell it to people. This rework made him significantly more powerful but it makes him just awful to play against.

As usual, it is fantastically lazy and boring

You and him have polarizing opinions. He implies that it's weak, you think seem to think he's too oppressive. Interesting how people here are on both sides of the spectrum, he is generally very well-received on reddit.

[Knight_Raime]

Im not really sold on it, dodging is an extremely effective counter and the removal of the guaranteed charged bash seems a poor trade off for the moves on offer.

Seems that a wall splat/charged heavy is worth 30 damage, with no effective followup as the uncharged bash is dodgable, the light is dodgable on the same bash timing, the sword is stuck in chain finisher and cant get into an appropriate feint and GB is chained as a bash etc. All you can do is charge a bash, which gives off way to many warden/hito vibes than the game needed and reduces the offense to a single boring, duplicated style.

Hes just been turned into another start charging the 50/50 champs that riddle the game, except the efforts and mixups required get you pathetic damage in proportion to his own HP (and in exchange you get the bash feint on reaction GB) - problems are you deal some damage and back off with him due to the massive stamina costs sunk into mixups, which opens his tiny HP pool up for the massive damage combos that can be thrown his way

His forward leap needed to start chains, and his kick is still useless against any competent opponent outside of a one off 'surprise'. The feint on the bash is a lazy implementation of a system that needed to be toned down on warden and hito not spread to more characters. His bash tracking just needed to be tweaked to stop 1 timing dodging all & he needed some better tools to open up a turtle, such as being able to bash off having a light blocked

Overall it saddens me to see this as the overdue rework, lack of imagination or real care and just copying other moves from other champs in the game.

The changes to the zone were just common sense and should have been done about 18 months ago, so I cant even applaud the obvious being done late as an 'improvement'.

I might need to sink more time into him, but the lack of finding a single cent in duals speaks volumes on a freshly reworked champ

EDIT: maybe he will feel more viable for me when the stamina/damage fixes go live (not the first time champs are done with future changes in mind)

-Not sure what you mean by dodging being extremely effective. There's no single one timing to avoid Centurion's jab mix up. Back walk into back dodge only counters some of it and cent can punish this with a buffered feint into kick if you roll or buffered feint into GB if it's just a back dodge. This is basically on par with how good dodging works with both other heros who have chargable bashes.


-Not sure why you think a wall splat of 30 damage with mix up potential that can't be stuffed or avoided on a single timing is poor. There are far less characters that net above 30 damage on a splat than under 30. Further more if we're considering 4's apart of this centurion still has high punishes. Just not busted ones. Centurion's current highest max punish if we don't count out of lock state is 62 with haymaker and 57 without. Is that a far cry from his old max punishes? Yes. Do other heros have higher ones? Yes. But his is much more reasonable and that's still quite a lot of damage. If haymaker didn't exist then you might have a point about his damage.


-Dodge heavy guarantees jab if it lands. So it does play into his mix ups. Kick isn't useless. It's decent OOS pressure and works okay to sprinkle in occasionally. It not being a strong bash like BP's or WL's isn't a bad thing.


Seems like the rework isn't bad. You just take an issue with this kind of gameplay. Centurion's current and one weakness is a lack of a way to deal with bashes. He's more than capable of being a meta pick in 4's via replacing kensei or aramusha. Centurion may closely resemble some parts of warden and hitokiri but the differences between the 3 are distinct enough gameplay wise that I cannot say Centurion "copied" them. If anything Centurion now correctly matches his tag of being a mix up intensive hero and at least for me feels more in line with what he was trying to be design wise.

Centurion lost nothing of value as far as I know. If all you cared for was the damage he used to be able to output then you didn't actually enjoy Centurion.

[EvoX.]

-Dodge heavy guarantees jab if it lands.

This is no longer true. Regrettable, especially considering Warden can deal 60 damage on a number of heroes if he lands Valiant Breaktrhrough, but... as I said, Warden is just Warden.

[Maxime_Qc-]

So just to be clear ... ubi ruin another of my main ?

All of my main one after the other... i find a new main they ******g ruin it again ....

I'm done 🙂

I was hoping for a new hero go.f.u.c.k.yourself ubi

[Maxime_Qc-]

Deleting for honor right now for the first time ever since the game's out to make some space for the last of us part 2!