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  1. #21
    Originally Posted by DOLOR... Go to original post
    It's not the TTK, it is the unbalanced Pistols/tank builds they literally destroyed crit dmg builds to make shields meta
    The entire problem at the moment is Pistols (Liberty), Shotgun, Armor Regen & Shield (Bulwark Set). No taking into account the new healer gear set that's healing your own skill and fire. If you take 2 people with identical builds (we'll see 3 red 3 blue SMG/AR) the balance is pretty good. It's those specific outliers that's been mentioned that need further changes. My only hope is the changes will be good enough.
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  2. #22
    Originally Posted by king-fisto Go to original post
    The game changed so much, even from Div1, in favor of, let's say, not so good players. I can understand this at some point, 90% of the player base are casual/Pve players so they have to be protected. But pvp should have the player's skills on top, with the actual build complementing the skills, not vice versa.

    You are talking about different type of game, it's more like destiney pvp. But this is different, it's a RPG down to the root. The only balance u can have is a scissor, paper and rock counter system. That's why you were right at the beginning, it should be all red build > tank build, otherwise everyone will just running tank. Then skill build will find nobody they can kill, so you will literally only got 1 type of build left in game, and that is what your good old TD1 was all about. Who has better roll 6 pieces classified striker...

    We have 2 dozens of different brand/ gear sets, all has different purpose, don't you feel it's a bit waste if come to the PvP, only 1 or 2 are useful. Cos here, due to the competitive nature, people will go for the "best", if there is one...
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  3. #23
    I just mentioned div1 as an example. And I have to disagree, there was more build diversity in div1, strikers, FM, nomad, pred, healers, firecrest, hybrids,d3fnc3, I saw all of these builds in the DZ. Most sets in div2 are useless in pvp, so goes for brand sets. Tanks are meta not for beeing able to survive more, but they deal a lot of damage too, and this is wrong imo. If initial weapon damage was lower most builds would be viable, so would different playstyles, instead of pestilence-medkit-shotgun type of play.
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  4. #24
    Originally Posted by king-fisto Go to original post
    I just mentioned div1 as an example. And I have to disagree, there was more build diversity in div1, strikers, FM, nomad, pred, healers, firecrest, hybrids,d3fnc3, I saw all of these builds in the DZ. Most sets in div2 are useless in pvp, so goes for brand sets. Tanks are meta not for beeing able to survive more, but they deal a lot of damage too, and this is wrong imo. If initial weapon damage was lower most builds would be viable, so would different playstyles, instead of pestilence-medkit-shotgun type of play.
    Agree with you on this one.
    You cant have both the armor and the damage.
    If you are investing in blue, your damage should scale down accordingly, and while using shield - even more.
    Some tallents and weapons are overtuned, allowing you to have high armor together with high damage.
    Imho, damage tallents shouldnt give more than 15% of damage or have some "punishment" mechanic added like "glass cannon"
    30% more damage at the cost of being squishy its a fair trade i guess, but having 35% or even 25% more damage for 10 seconds after swaping weapons is just too much.
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  5. #25
    Originally Posted by Mr.Atlass Go to original post
    Agree with you on this one.
    You cant have both the armor and the damage.
    If you are investing in blue, your damage should scale down accordingly, and while using shield - even more.
    Some tallents and weapons are overtuned, allowing you to have high armor together with high damage.
    Imho, damage tallents shouldnt give more than 15% of damage or have some "punishment" mechanic added like "glass cannon"
    30% more damage at the cost of being squishy its a fair trade i guess, but having 35% or even 25% more damage for 10 seconds after swaping weapons is just too much.
    It's really simple: lower all weapons base damage by 30%, buff offensive core attributes from 15% to 20%. An all red build will do the exact same dmg as on pts3, but tanks or any non-red build will deal 30% less. This will make other builds/playstyles viable like hybrids and healers imo.
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  6. #26
    Originally Posted by king-fisto Go to original post
    I just mentioned div1 as an example. And I have to disagree, there was more build diversity in div1, strikers, FM, nomad, pred, healers, firecrest, hybrids,d3fnc3, I saw all of these builds in the DZ. Most sets in div2 are useless in pvp, so goes for brand sets. Tanks are meta not for beeing able to survive more, but they deal a lot of damage too, and this is wrong imo. If initial weapon damage was lower most builds would be viable, so would different playstyles, instead of pestilence-medkit-shotgun type of play.
    Sounds a lot, but think about, it's all dps tank, dps tank, dps tank...

    Firecrest was the only useful skill build, or in other word, fire turret was the only useful damage skill. And it got nerfed to the ground...

    And glass cannon type of build are not really competitive either. Cos everyone hated deadeye...

    The current meta in TD2 is more diverse than you think. You are not bounded with one or two sets of gear, you can actually customize whatever you want more. Like I saw people made damage build not simple going all crit but more hazard protection, and he was dominating in dz. That's the point of brand set, customization. It's healthy meta as you got tank, glass cannon, healer, cc and multiple damage skills works in it. It took us way to long to get to the current stats, but if you look at PTS, they are going backwards...Why, it's actually nothing to do with balance, it's just to promoting the new raid...
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  7. #27
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    Originally Posted by ashered Go to original post
    Like I said, it's pointless. I don't need you “Execution” style test video. that's not how it play out in reality. The TTK differece range has nothing to compare with any other shooter. How much offense stats, hs or body, crit or no crit, how much armor the target has, and for TU10, how hard the target chicken dance...There is no representational TTK test. All you can do is best scenario and it's actually hard to even estimate the worst. But what we can say is, if the chicken dance made a return, TTK is probabaly fked up.
    i've made this for a reason - https://divisiondz.com/division-dps-calculator/
    you can calculate and simulate mostly everything you need gun-wise. there is built-in chicken dance simulator with accuracy % slider, crit rng simulator with crit chance % slider. Enemy armor slider, its all right there. Dont forget "RNG crit chance & headshot DPS" is actually a button you can spam to get countless simulations of PVP fights. [Ive edited the button desription to be easier to understand - Click here to run new simulation! ]
    With most of the talents included, additive, multiplicative and amplifications. If someone dont know how to get the most juice out of it, well...
    But i feel like not too many people actually understand how to use it. My math teacher once told, that the calculator is as smart as his user.
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  8. #28
    Originally Posted by R2_Stealth Go to original post
    i've made this for a reason - https://divisiondz.com/division-dps-calculator/
    you can calculate and simulate mostly everything you need gun-wise. there is built-in chicken dance simulator with accuracy % slider, crit rng simulator with crit chance % slider. Enemy armor slider, its all right there. Dont forget "RNG crit chance & headshot DPS" is actually a button you can spam to get countless simulations of PVP fights. [Ive edited the button desription to be easier to understand - Click here to run new simulation! ]
    With most of the talents included, additive, multiplicative and amplifications. If someone dont know how to get the most juice out of it, well...
    But i feel like not too many people actually understand how to use it. My math teacher once told, that the calculator is as smart as his user.
    You don't need a calculator, you need a dictionary for the word "pointless"...

    I've said like 1000 times, what you are saying is not what's going on on the PTS, and there is a good reason for that. It's like we had a earthquake, you say "according to my simulation it never happened"

    Your so called "simulation" is least needed on this forum. Why you think yours got more covered than the Dev's first hand data. Besides, you (lets just say you could not "you are") change some parameters to support a false idea, instead of other way around. This forum is for player exprinces, that their data could not reflect. And the player exprince are posted by many that people "don't die" or "literally unkillable" on PTS.
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  9. #29
    R2_Stealth's Avatar Banned
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    Originally Posted by ashered Go to original post
    You don't need a calculator, you need a dictionary for the word "pointless"...

    I've said like 1000 times, what you are saying is not what's going on on the PTS, and there is a good reason for that. It's like we had a earthquake, you say "according to my simulation it never happened"
    Ive been on PTS 2 days ago and ttk is still 0.5s, tested vs multiple people, that were present at that time. But i will take some videos for evidence of what you are trying to prove here.
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  10. #30
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    Originally Posted by ashered Go to original post
    You don't need a calculator, you need a dictionary for the word "pointless"...

    I've said like 1000 times, what you are saying is not what's going on on the PTS, and there is a good reason for that. It's like we had a earthquake, you say "according to my simulation it never happened"

    Your so called "simulation" is least needed on this forum. Why you think yours got more covered than the Dev's first hand data. Besides, you (lets just say you could not "you are") change some parameters to support a false idea, instead of other way around. This forum is for player exprinces, that their data could not reflect. And the player exprince are posted by many that people "don't die" or "literally unkillable" on PTS.
    Yea, actually lets work on some video evidence instead of "what a random guy on the forum said".
    Show me the unkillable players video or just explain the TTK from this videom, latest phase 3 - https://youtu.be/ZBcGARfM_AA?t=6920
    WHATS THIS?? - https://youtu.be/ZBcGARfM_AA?t=7183 INSTAMELTED
    WHATS THIS?? - https://youtu.be/ZBcGARfM_AA?t=7218 THE UNKILLABLE BULWARK, LOL
    PLEASE TELL ME - https://youtu.be/ZBcGARfM_AA?t=7357 YOU ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT UNKILLABLE PLAYERS WHILE THEY ARE BOTH TANKS, LOL
    Unspecced shotguns - https://youtu.be/ZBcGARfM_AA?t=7788 whos doing these decision should not be allowed behind PVP balancing.
    Someone said earlier, that TTK is too long xD - https://youtu.be/ZBcGARfM_AA?t=7888
    Full bulwark + bonus armor - https://youtu.be/ZBcGARfM_AA?t=8211 YIKES
    Hmm, this TTK look too long, hm, hmm - https://youtu.be/ZBcGARfM_AA?t=8783


    /If i would mess with parameters just to prove my points, the damage numbers from calc and in the live game servers would be different, yet, its 99,8% the same, minor rounding differences.
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