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  1. #1

    PVP TTK - Facts & Math

    This is my another try at fixing the PVP in The Division, we were supposed to get it fixed with this PTS, yet, its still in awful spot.
    Ill use Tactical vector for example, as its what i got in pts and live server
    Live vs PTS
    LIVE PTS - P3
    17,6k dmg 13,33k dmg
    TTK - 0,48-0,6s TTK - 0,58-0,72s

    So, we got 100-120 miliseconds of longer TTK, yikes
    If we drop the damage to 10,33k - TTK goes up - 0,85s to 1,02s.
    What we have now is even faster than COD actually xD, even on PTS.

    Whats the optimal TTK for a looter shooter RPG? Imo 1,2s, because you loose on average 250ms for your reaction time, so you have 1 second to do something compared to ~300 miliseconds on live server. Fun fact - Blink of an eye is 400 miliseconds.

    All the simulations above were run with full red build, 100% HS + 170% CD, 60% CC, 6% Armor damage, Wicked 18%, Spotter 15%. NO contractors or fox prayers. Missed shots - 50%, which is equivalent of a low-mid skilled player.

    AGAIN. Whats the optimal TTK for a looter shooter RPG?

    /EDIT: I forgot about ****ty servers, where you are in cover and still getting damage, its around 200 miliseconds of delay or even more, not sure if it should be counted into the equation, but its still a factor.
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  2. #2
    I agree that Pvp TTK is too low even with the -20% dmg in pts3 but further lowering PvP damage will result in a tank meta with really long fights. My proposal is to lower all weapons damage by 50% and buff core offensive attributes from 15% (max) to 25%. This will balance the scaling from Wony update where weapons were buffed up to 60-70% in damage (level 30->level 40) but max armor only went up to ~30-35% (~600k->2.1m).
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  3. #3
    Originally Posted by king-fisto Go to original post
    I agree that Pvp TTK is too low even with the -20% dmg in pts3 but further lowering PvP damage will result in a tank meta with really long fights. My proposal is to lower all weapons damage by 50% and buff core offensive attributes from 15% (max) to 25%. This will balance the scaling from Wony update where weapons were buffed up to 60-70% in damage (level 30->level 40) but max armor only went up to ~30-35% (~600k->2.1m).

    Full red build vs full tank build

    Red need 1,84s to 2,16s to kill full blue
    and Blue need 1,62s to 2,1s to kill full red

    you are correct, meta would shift into a tanky builds. Simulations were done with tactical vector 10,33k damage as main weapon.
    But bumping from 15% to 25% would completely destroy any balance.

    Red stats would have to be buffed 15%->17%, so balance can be achieved with 1,66s to 2,08s to kill full Blue as a full Red.
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  4. #4
    Pointless. Even in this game pvp is not simply standing still and spray over the head. What you are suggesting is far from the actual exprince on the PTS, which has been pointed out by many. We all know Tank and healer build on PTS is completely out of control now...

    Besides, what the benefit to only consider the highst DPS in game? They suppose to kill things fast. But for the other not so optimized build and not weapon damage based build, just lower the base damage modifer by another 10%, the TTK and TTBK difference gonna instantly change from unfair to impossible, what was working will stop working. And to address that was the how point of gear 2.0. We had enough DPS facetank meta in the past, sure need no more...
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by ashered Go to original post
    Pointless. Even in this game pvp is not simply standing still and spray over the head. What you are suggesting is far from the actual exprince on the PTS, which has been pointed out by many. We all know Tank and healer build on PTS is completely out of control now...

    Besides, what the benefit to only consider the highst DPS in game? They suppose to kill things fast. But for the other not so optimized build and not weapon damage based build, just lower the base damage modifer by another 10%, the TTK and TTBK difference gonna instantly change from unfair to impossible, what was working will stop working. And to address that was the how point of gear 2.0. We had enough DPS facetank meta in the past, sure need no more...
    i didnt saw anyone pointing out anything, please show me some post with some data and yes, what im suggesting is SUPER far form PTS experience.
    And yes, its not standing still, thats why ive used 50% aim accuracy. which means, you miss 50% of your shots.
    And no clue what you are talking in the second part of your post. I've just equalized TTK between DPS and a tank, so they both have the same chance to win.
    And finally, if you think 1s TTK with 50% accuracy is a tank meta, then i guess we dont have much to talk about, wish you the best in life.

    btw dont get me wrong, i love cod and really enjoying it atm. just wanted to help The Divsion folks, but if you dont want help, np.
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  6. #6
    Originally Posted by R1_Stealth Go to original post
    i didnt saw anyone pointing out anything, please show me some post with some data and yes, what im suggesting is SUPER far form PTS experience.
    And yes, its not standing still, thats why ive used 50% aim accuracy. which means, you miss 50% of your shots.
    And no clue what you are talking in the second part of your post. I've just equalized TTK between DPS and a tank, so they both have the same chance to win.
    And finally, if you think 1s TTK with 50% accuracy is a tank meta, then i guess we dont have much to talk about, wish you the best in life.

    btw dont get me wrong, i love cod and really enjoying it atm. just wanted to help The Divsion folks, but if you dont want help, np.
    You got be blind to ignore all the discussion about those 2 "never die" new gear set. Yet you wanna increase ttk before those addressed. I can only imagine you had a lot fun abusing them on pts...
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by ashered Go to original post
    You got be blind to ignore all the discussion about those 2 "never die" new gear set. Yet you wanna increase ttk before those addressed. I can only imagine you had a lot fun abusing them on pts...
    ive actually tested TTK, not this broken **** and TTK is still 0,5s in most cases, but will do a comparison video between live and PTS today with different weapon damage thresholds, including this 'broken' gear set.
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  8. #8
    UbiBlush's Avatar Community Manager
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    Hey everyone,

    Just a reminder that everyone is allowed to post feedback and suggestions in the PTS forums. We will always take all messages into account and everyone is in their right to express their opinion respectfully.

    Please, be kind and civil to one another.
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  9. #9
    Originally Posted by R1_Stealth Go to original post
    ive actually tested TTK, not this broken **** and TTK is still 0,5s in most cases, but will do a comparison video between live and PTS today with different weapon damage thresholds, including this 'broken' gear set.
    Like I said, it's pointless. I don't need you “Execution” style test video. that's not how it play out in reality. The TTK differece range has nothing to compare with any other shooter. How much offense stats, hs or body, crit or no crit, how much armor the target has, and for TU10, how hard the target chicken dance...There is no representational TTK test. All you can do is best scenario and it's actually hard to even estimate the worst. But what we can say is, if the chicken dance made a return, TTK is probabaly fked up.
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  10. #10
    As long as a tank can kill a dps in the same time if not even faster as vice versa, the problem will be there. There is too much initial damage with no red core att to begin with. There has to be a balance where specing to dps actually matters, cause right now it does not. I can see tu10 beeing a tank meta with shields, armor regen and pistol spamming all over.
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