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  1. #1
    As1r0nimo's Avatar Senior Member
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    Mar 2019
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    It's time to rework Status EFX and Debuffs

    The current situation with CC nerf on higher tier content just showed everyone how bad the state of debuffs in the game. I don't know WHY you try to reinvent the wheel, but that cancerous decision made things only worse.

    We have already enourmous amount of feedback, what things players like and what they don't. And i'm not talking about power creeps, i'm talking about build diversity.

    Please, try to understand and accept, that flat nerf the whole group will comepletely destroy it. You implement Debuffs as a whole Status effect theme, while also add some "exotic" ones, like The Vile. And by nerfing CC you just ignited the problems with it.

    The WHEEL have been implemented in such games for over a 15 years already. Please, don't try to reinvent it. I'm not trying to insult you, or teach you something. I'm just explaining, why your decision about CC WAS A BAD ONE, and accumulating the whole playerbase concerns.

    The idea, of how to fix things is simple. SEPARATE Damage over time effects and Crowd Control effects in different groups. Balance them separetely. You have just created a problem out of nowhere. By decreasing the time of status effects on enemies you have also deacreased the damage of skill builders. Means, you have destroyed that part of power play and builds.

    When those 2 types of Debuffs will be separate, you can simply balance them.

    FOR Damage over time EFX
    MAKE them Equal. EVERY DoT should last for 10 seconds. Every DoT should have baseline damage, modified by the skill or a Talents.
    Let us be powerful with DoT's!
    Let Pyromaniac and those types of guns to be efficient in BOTH skill builds and Offensive builds.
    Base idea is simple as it is.
    Ignite Increase the damage, done to enemies under fire effect (including that fire effect) by 15%.
    Every bullet hit will trigger 1 tick of that Fire damage. Can happen only once per second.
    If the target with fire effect killed, next target will be set on fire.

    This talent will allow hybrids to effectivly reset the fire on one enemy while also deal massive damage. For Offensive builds there will be a bonus of 15% damage increase, while for Skill builders that are focused on Damage over time effects, shooting that target will provide a lot of "FIRE SKILL DAMAGE".
    Same can be done to ANY type of DoT's.
    The Damage over time effects can benefit from both Status effects stat and Skill damage, effectively increasing that skill build. The diversity here will be in choosing more damage, or Skill haste.
    This will also increase THE POWER of The Vile. As For Eclipse protocol gear set, it's core talent could increase the DoT's duration on target's by 50%. So with tranfering, it will have more time to deal damage. And Chest piece - for DoT's it could increase tick rates by 25%.


    FOR Crowd Control
    Instead of that flat and, honestly, cancerous decision of simple increasing Hazard protection on heroic+ enemies, there is a way more efficient thing.
    ADD diminishing returns
    In that case, the first wave of debuffs will have full duration of Crowd Control. However, the next one will be shorter by 30-75%, so elites will wake up faster. Put every type of CC on common timing, so players won't be able to chain them. The only exclusion is Riot foam, it will be separate.

    In that case, CC builds will be still helpful, while Damage over time Builds won't suffer from that DR. And you will be able to balance one group and don't fck up with another.

    PS: to balance Fire CC effect, instead of panic, enemies should have decreased accuracy while out of cover. Or make them paniking only first 2 seconds (resets every 1 minute, so again, can't be chained).


    Just to be clear. With you decision and vision of difficulty, you have destroyed a lot of things:
    1) Crowd control builds. 70% resistance is no joke. Elites+ can ignore any CC, even if you build around it.
    2) Damage over time builds. Why bother adding The Vile mask, if those builds won't be needed in Heroic+ content?
    3) Separate game breaking difficulties. Builds, that are super cool and fun on Challenging are completely dead on Heroic. One line of code ruined everything about them.
    4) Gear sets, that are relying on Status effects. For example - Ongoing directive. You added a backpack, that increase Bleed damage by 100%. With that lonely line of code YOU COMEPLETY NULLIFY THAT BUFF. Same goes to a raid gear set Eclipse protocol. It transfers 50% (75%) of the duration. The duration based on what? 70% reduced duration?

    It's good, that such things are on PTS, but really. This is an extremely lazy and clueless dicision. That completely destroyed at least a half of FUN you were speaking about in State of the games during last few weeks.
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  2. #2
    Honestly the NPCs resistance is a horrible move. All the time spent to make our status builds is down the drain
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  3. #3
    Guess how long it took to find a piece of Golan with status dmg+effect as attribs. All the time down the toilet if this change goes live.

    Why even have different items and builds anymore when Heroic requires 3 Reds + 1 Blue maybe and no other type of gameplay is wished by the devs? They ruined stuff like Vile and Eclipse Protocol with that nerf before that gear is even out.
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  4. #4
    Diminishing returns sounds like a much more reasonable nerf. Hopefully this gets passed up the chain.
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by ReviveMePeople Go to original post
    Honestly the NPCs resistance is a horrible move. All the time spent to make our status builds is down the drain
    People keep saying this. I'd love to know their reasoning... CC builds are still going to be powerful and required for a lot of groups to complete legendary runs. CC builds allow a window of damage for the DPS players. That window will still be there, it will now just be a little bit shorter.

    Also, what's the point of diminishing returns when the enemies can all get killed in the first duration of being blind? I guarantee hardly any of you have actually tested these changes in a 4-man group on legendary runs. Also the NPCs received a slight increase in resistance. Not a super ultra major increase like it sounds, with how much you are all crying. NPCs will still be blind for a long time, just not as ridiculously long as before, which made legendary runs far too easy. Such a challenge to shoot blind enemies in the head who can almost never shoot back...
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  6. #6
    Originally Posted by krismate- Go to original post
    People keep saying this. I'd love to know their reasoning... CC builds are still going to be powerful and required for a lot of groups to complete legendary runs. CC builds allow a window of damage for the DPS players. That window will still be there, it will now just be a little bit shorter.

    Also, what's the point of diminishing returns when the enemies can all get killed in the first duration of being blind? I guarantee hardly any of you have actually tested these changes in a 4-man group on legendary runs. Also the NPCs received a slight increase in resistance. Not a super ultra major increase like it sounds, with how much you are all crying. NPCs will still be blind for a long time, just not as ridiculously long as before, which made legendary runs far too easy. Such a challenge to shoot blind enemies in the head who can almost never shoot back...
    "slight increase"

    40% is a "slight increase"

    Did you even test these changes or just jerk off on the forums about how the game still isn't hard enough?

    This stacks on top of the baked in hazard protection that veteran and elite already get. I tried PTS legendary today with people I normally play legendary with. Blind and foam barely last a couple seconds, tanks are basically immune to status now.

    It's a completely terrible change. Dedicated CC is *dead* on legendary.
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  7. #7
    They destroy CC builds and say they want build diversity lol.
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  8. #8
    Originally Posted by unknown_merc44 Go to original post
    "slight increase"

    40% is a "slight increase"

    Did you even test these changes or just jerk off on the forums about how the game still isn't hard enough?

    This stacks on top of the baked in hazard protection that veteran and elite already get. I tried PTS legendary today with people I normally play legendary with. Blind and foam barely last a couple seconds, tanks are basically immune to status now.

    It's a completely terrible change. Dedicated CC is *dead* on legendary.
    Please read the patchnotes carefully again. The base resistance for legendary WAS 25% already. A Veteran (purple HP), additionally/on top of that, had a 20% bonus, an elite a 25% bonus, and a named enemy a 35% bonus. These would be an additive bonus on top of the 25%. Meaning overall resistance before was 25% for a red-HP enemy, 45% for veteran, 50% for an elite, and 60% for a named enemy.

    The new values are an extra 15% additive bonus. Those are 40% for red-HP enemy, 60% for veteran, 65% for an elite, and 75% for a named enemy.

    That is not that massive of an increase, especially when a CC build could blind most of these enemies for extreme amounts of time.
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  9. #9
    Originally Posted by krismate- Go to original post
    Please read the patchnotes carefully again. The base resistance for legendary WAS 25% already. A Veteran (purple HP), additionally/on top of that, had a 20% bonus, an elite a 25% bonus, and a named enemy a 35% bonus. These would be an additive bonus on top of the 25%. Meaning overall resistance before was 25% for a red-HP enemy, 45% for veteran, 50% for an elite, and 60% for a named enemy.

    The new values are an extra 15% additive bonus. Those are 40% for red-HP enemy, 60% for veteran, 65% for an elite, and 75% for a named enemy.

    That is not that massive of an increase, especially when a CC build could blind most of these enemies for extreme amounts of time.
    You are missing the point. They could have just made the duration less or the cooldown more on blinder firefly and saved a TON of problems. It is that myopic thinking that gives them the negativity on the forums.
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  10. #10
    Meli4v's Avatar Junior Member
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    Apr 2016
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    I am sorry, but you clearly have no clue how cc works on legendary.

    I run cc on legendaries, and we do them pretty much everyday, all of them.

    With the current live version, i run a 20s blind duration. Currently, the leg enemies are blinded barely half that time, due to the innate resistances.
    Adding 15% more resistance will kill the cc build, making it useless, you cannot kill a leg. elite in that time, and lets not start on the armed elite ones.
    With the current accuracy,circe du solair manouvering and dmg the leg enemies do, without cc, you simply wont be able to do that content, period. The only way this might work is lowering 15-20% accuracy and dmg.

    On top of this, i heard the devs want diversity? Of course the best way to do it is killing yet another non full red build.

    CC is fine, dont touch it, unless you do what everyone is asking since TU8, rework the npcs.

    Cheers
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