Status effect build get "deleted" in TU 10 | Forums

[xX_RobinHood_Xx]

Fire damage needs a nerf, keep the bleed nerf as is. We need an immunizer to deal with status effects in both pve and pvp.

Or adrenaline.

[Agent_Putt]

Status effects are cancer in PvP. They werent anywhere near as powerful as this even back in Div1. They needed to be nerfed and hard.

The only outlier is the firestarter chem launcher.

[RichardOshea]

You guys do realise that if you keep on with the nerf this skill nerf that skill then your PvP will be little more than chicken dancing with one or two builds and dull as dish water. You're running the risk of reducing the DZ's PvP to either a ghost town that no skill oriented player will enter (and that is outright discriminatory in its nature) or just a ganking festival of rogue groups. It is positively selfish what rogues run around calling for and they neeed to be put back in their box.

[stryfe..]

I want to add this reddit post from BronsonM4. The guy knows his stuff offered some great advice when it comes to CC/status effect builds..

Let’s break it down, and this is coming from someone that played literally every PVP MMORPG game ever released.

Skills can either:

1 Hit hard

2 Hit often

3 Crowd Control

Pick one.

Skills deal far too much damage currently, and you don’t need to actively invest in them like you did in TD1. If I wanted to one tap a player in TD1, I should need things like Tactician stacks (obtained by actively shooting my gun and hitting targets), proc’ing Talented (destroying a proxy).

Skills should only one tap in TD2 by having buffs such as Combined Arms / Spike active. The counter to those should be higher Armor, Hazard Protection, or a combination of both. Right now I can one tap a player just by pressing a bumper twice on my controller. That is bad game design.

Right now, skills come back far too quickly. Cooldowns should be doubled and Skill Haste should be a part of every Skill Level for skills.

Status effect damage deals too much damage over time, too quickly. Look at the bleed ticks on a stinger hive or the flame ticks on a chem launcher or sticky - it’s multiple ticks per second. Why? Ticks should be spaced much farther apart and occur less. Compare bleed and burn ticks to your TD1 agent - then realize we also had multiple ways to cleanse status effects in TD1.

FACT: There is no way to cleanse status effects in TD2 (outside of the Sharpshooter armor kit which has limited effect). This means you have to balance status effects around this. In TD1 First Aid skill cleansed status effects before that was changed over to Medkits. Immunizer provides immunity to status effects and cleansed them when you entered the radius. There need to be both hard and soft counters, and there needs to be a reliable way to cleanse status effects.

FACT: Several skills do not have PVP modifiers AT ALL, to include Sticky Burn and Firestarter Chem Launcher. This needs to be changed immediately.

A single Stinger Hive drone bleed can one tap a player with no Yellow core utility stats. Even if they stack armor. That should never, ever happen.

Skills have far too much health, especially when they have smaller hit boxes and janky hot registration. Skills need a PVP modifier for their health pools like the Shield has. I also believe skills should have a dedicated weak point so that Headshot Damage is dealt to it to better incentivize higher skill ceiling play.

If I move out of the radius of a Stinger Hive, the drones should not track me outside of it.

If I EMP a stinger hive while it is still in the air, it should be destroyed.

If I down a player, their Stinger Hive should be destroyed. Its drones certainly should not still be tracking me and doing damage after it is destroyed.

Status Effects should not be a minor attribute roll on gear, they should be tied into Yellow core utility stats. This is a major design failure of the dev team.

If Hazard Protection rolls were increased to 15-20% values - that would be a more valid argument. You simply can’t stack enough Hazard Protection (60% rolls on gear assuming you roll max attribute on them) for it to matter. Why? Because those values are trumped by Status Effect rolls on gear (up to 60%), Perpetuation (50%), and Status Effect brand bonuses (30-35%). Literally the only way for it to matter is to achieve status effect immunity which requires the following - all Hazard Protection rolls on gear, 1 piece Yaahl, and at least two blue mods. And even then you will only be achieving status effect immunity to ONE specific status effect. The opportunity cost for that is far too high.

This was literally the SAME issue we had in TD1 1.6 where Exotic Damage Resilience (EDR) did not matter because of how many damage buffs Tacticians could have for Airburst Seeker Mines. It would simply outscale the EDR values. I was one-tapped by Airburst Seekers in a Final Measure build with 60% EDR - which should have never happened.

The problem with skill builds right now are that they are too viable and don’t require as much active input from the player.

I’m of the belief that skill builds should be able to one tap, but that is going to require several active talents in order to do so which is nowhere near the case now.

[stryfe..]

You guys do realise that if you keep on with the nerf this skill nerf that skill then your PvP will be little more than chicken dancing with one or two builds and dull as dish water. You're running the risk of reducing the DZ's PvP to either a ghost town that no skill oriented player will enter (and that is outright discriminatory in its nature) or just a ganking festival of rogue groups. It is positively selfish what rogues run around calling for and they neeed to be put back in their box.

You're not seeing the problem with skills in the DZ. They're overpowered and there is no counter besides specing fully into hazard protection. Beyond that, there is none. That's a problem. A big one.

[K.A.0.S]

I want to add this reddit post from BronsonM4. The guy knows his stuff offered some great advice when it comes to CC/status effect builds..

Let’s break it down, and this is coming from someone that played literally every PVP MMORPG game ever released.

Skills can either:

1 Hit hard

2 Hit often

3 Crowd Control

Pick one.

Skills deal far too much damage currently, and you don’t need to actively invest in them like you did in TD1. If I wanted to one tap a player in TD1, I should need things like Tactician stacks (obtained by actively shooting my gun and hitting targets), proc’ing Talented (destroying a proxy).

Skills should only one tap in TD2 by having buffs such as Combined Arms / Spike active. The counter to those should be higher Armor, Hazard Protection, or a combination of both. Right now I can one tap a player just by pressing a bumper twice on my controller. That is bad game design.

Right now, skills come back far too quickly. Cooldowns should be doubled and Skill Haste should be a part of every Skill Level for skills.

Status effect damage deals too much damage over time, too quickly. Look at the bleed ticks on a stinger hive or the flame ticks on a chem launcher or sticky - it’s multiple ticks per second. Why? Ticks should be spaced much farther apart and occur less. Compare bleed and burn ticks to your TD1 agent - then realize we also had multiple ways to cleanse status effects in TD1.

FACT: There is no way to cleanse status effects in TD2 (outside of the Sharpshooter armor kit which has limited effect). This means you have to balance status effects around this. In TD1 First Aid skill cleansed status effects before that was changed over to Medkits. Immunizer provides immunity to status effects and cleansed them when you entered the radius. There need to be both hard and soft counters, and there needs to be a reliable way to cleanse status effects.

FACT: Several skills do not have PVP modifiers AT ALL, to include Sticky Burn and Firestarter Chem Launcher. This needs to be changed immediately.

A single Stinger Hive drone bleed can one tap a player with no Yellow core utility stats. Even if they stack armor. That should never, ever happen.

Skills have far too much health, especially when they have smaller hit boxes and janky hot registration. Skills need a PVP modifier for their health pools like the Shield has. I also believe skills should have a dedicated weak point so that Headshot Damage is dealt to it to better incentivize higher skill ceiling play.

If I move out of the radius of a Stinger Hive, the drones should not track me outside of it.

If I EMP a stinger hive while it is still in the air, it should be destroyed.

If I down a player, their Stinger Hive should be destroyed. Its drones certainly should not still be tracking me and doing damage after it is destroyed.

Status Effects should not be a minor attribute roll on gear, they should be tied into Yellow core utility stats. This is a major design failure of the dev team.

If Hazard Protection rolls were increased to 15-20% values - that would be a more valid argument. You simply can’t stack enough Hazard Protection (60% rolls on gear assuming you roll max attribute on them) for it to matter. Why? Because those values are trumped by Status Effect rolls on gear (up to 60%), Perpetuation (50%), and Status Effect brand bonuses (30-35%). Literally the only way for it to matter is to achieve status effect immunity which requires the following - all Hazard Protection rolls on gear, 1 piece Yaahl, and at least two blue mods. And even then you will only be achieving status effect immunity to ONE specific status effect. The opportunity cost for that is far too high.

This was literally the SAME issue we had in TD1 1.6 where Exotic Damage Resilience (EDR) did not matter because of how many damage buffs Tacticians could have for Airburst Seeker Mines. It would simply outscale the EDR values. I was one-tapped by Airburst Seekers in a Final Measure build with 60% EDR - which should have never happened.

The problem with skill builds right now are that they are too viable and don’t require as much active input from the player.

I’m of the belief that skill builds should be able to one tap, but that is going to require several active talents in order to do so which is nowhere near the case now.

This should be a separate threads. Massive should see this.

[sandpants]

I want to add this reddit post from BronsonM4. The guy knows his stuff offered some great advice when it comes to CC/status effect builds..

Let’s break it down, and this is coming from someone that played literally every PVP MMORPG game ever released.

Skills can either:

1 Hit hard

2 Hit often

3 Crowd Control

Pick one.

Skills deal far too much damage currently, and you don’t need to actively invest in them like you did in TD1. If I wanted to one tap a player in TD1, I should need things like Tactician stacks (obtained by actively shooting my gun and hitting targets), proc’ing Talented (destroying a proxy).

Skills should only one tap in TD2 by having buffs such as Combined Arms / Spike active. The counter to those should be higher Armor, Hazard Protection, or a combination of both. Right now I can one tap a player just by pressing a bumper twice on my controller. That is bad game design.

Right now, skills come back far too quickly. Cooldowns should be doubled and Skill Haste should be a part of every Skill Level for skills.

Status effect damage deals too much damage over time, too quickly. Look at the bleed ticks on a stinger hive or the flame ticks on a chem launcher or sticky - it’s multiple ticks per second. Why? Ticks should be spaced much farther apart and occur less. Compare bleed and burn ticks to your TD1 agent - then realize we also had multiple ways to cleanse status effects in TD1.

FACT: There is no way to cleanse status effects in TD2 (outside of the Sharpshooter armor kit which has limited effect). This means you have to balance status effects around this. In TD1 First Aid skill cleansed status effects before that was changed over to Medkits. Immunizer provides immunity to status effects and cleansed them when you entered the radius. There need to be both hard and soft counters, and there needs to be a reliable way to cleanse status effects.

FACT: Several skills do not have PVP modifiers AT ALL, to include Sticky Burn and Firestarter Chem Launcher. This needs to be changed immediately.

A single Stinger Hive drone bleed can one tap a player with no Yellow core utility stats. Even if they stack armor. That should never, ever happen.

Skills have far too much health, especially when they have smaller hit boxes and janky hot registration. Skills need a PVP modifier for their health pools like the Shield has. I also believe skills should have a dedicated weak point so that Headshot Damage is dealt to it to better incentivize higher skill ceiling play.

If I move out of the radius of a Stinger Hive, the drones should not track me outside of it.

If I EMP a stinger hive while it is still in the air, it should be destroyed.

If I down a player, their Stinger Hive should be destroyed. Its drones certainly should not still be tracking me and doing damage after it is destroyed.

Status Effects should not be a minor attribute roll on gear, they should be tied into Yellow core utility stats. This is a major design failure of the dev team.

If Hazard Protection rolls were increased to 15-20% values - that would be a more valid argument. You simply can’t stack enough Hazard Protection (60% rolls on gear assuming you roll max attribute on them) for it to matter. Why? Because those values are trumped by Status Effect rolls on gear (up to 60%), Perpetuation (50%), and Status Effect brand bonuses (30-35%). Literally the only way for it to matter is to achieve status effect immunity which requires the following - all Hazard Protection rolls on gear, 1 piece Yaahl, and at least two blue mods. And even then you will only be achieving status effect immunity to ONE specific status effect. The opportunity cost for that is far too high.

This was literally the SAME issue we had in TD1 1.6 where Exotic Damage Resilience (EDR) did not matter because of how many damage buffs Tacticians could have for Airburst Seeker Mines. It would simply outscale the EDR values. I was one-tapped by Airburst Seekers in a Final Measure build with 60% EDR - which should have never happened.

The problem with skill builds right now are that they are too viable and don’t require as much active input from the player.

I’m of the belief that skill builds should be able to one tap, but that is going to require several active talents in order to do so which is nowhere near the case now.

Not in full agreement with this post
But at least is has some sound reasoning, definitely reaches beyond the usual "but muh skill builds" flip flop.

[LUXE75]

Imo, but Full Status effect build should be able to kill 6red 0HP players alone with bleed or fire damage. I mean, there is nothing wrond with that. Throw 10HP from your watches and 20% on your gear and you already have 30%, which menas you are completely safe from it.
This should be baseline and balance should dance around it.

People with 2 or 3 ST and +20-30% SE will damage only base armor with their bleed or fire, so nothing extremely strong here. Pick one armor slot and you are safe. Again.

You dont understand players who press 1 button can’t OS any one in pvp. Go back to feedback pve plz

[LUXE75]

You're not seeing the problem with skills in the DZ. They're overpowered and there is no counter besides specing fully into hazard protection. Beyond that, there is none. That's a problem. A big one.

Thanks you ! People dont get it its insane. We have no any immunize counter easily like easily they put people on status effect. Status effect build need to be useless in pvp and only build like seeker mine 6 skill tier full dmg can do some dmg with skills. To easy press 1 button and stay behind turrets and let them do the work

[RichardOshea]

You're not seeing the problem with skills in the DZ. They're overpowered and there is no counter besides specing fully into hazard protection. Beyond that, there is none. That's a problem. A big one.

I am seeing it but it isn't that a tier 6 skill is overpowered it's that a tier 0 is. If you fully spec into all red crit chance and crit damage do you not expect it to hit hard and be effective? I would, and I expect the same of a tier 6 build. What I do not expect is for a tier 0 stinger to be doing almost the same damage from two charges that a tier 6 does from one, nor would I expect it to have as many charges as it does. I have stated some time ago that the damage dealt by tier 0 skills is off and too high. You'd get no argument from me there, but when you call for a general nerf based off of tier 0 you are damaging tier 6 too, that's not right.

You talk about counters but what is a skill build expected to do to counter an all red CHC/CHD build? OK, so I could run a tier 6 defender drone but that won't last long and you can run a tier 0 jammer to instantly nuke it. You can run HP too but for some reason people would rather nerf status effects than be required to build with it in mind. Why? Well they don't want to give up any CHC or CHD but if they are unwilling to give up anything then how can they expect the other side of the argument to do anything different?

In here we see a demand that skill builds should only be able to one tap a player with talents procced but I walked into the DZ today and downed a player with a single mouse press and a Nemesis. If the standard is that a one shot skill should require procs then the same argument should be applied to any gun that can do the same thing, and the Nemesis isn't the only gun that can do this.