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Max SE build(with glass cannon) + new exotic mask(the talent sounds good). You are only doing 30k/ticket . And bleed damage alone is merely 17k/ticket, thats even lower than 0 tier PvP chem launcher heal...
To put it into perspective, you need at least 50k/ticket(which is already nerfed number in TU 9.1) to down a all red build, no hazard/explosion resistance with one seeker ball(explosion+bleed). Now imagine what you can do in the new "Facetank meta 5.0" coming with the TU 10 (except just die alot)..
For those who think SE is still too strong now(TU 9.1). Actually it's not. It's just that there are outliner skill also "happen to" apply status effect. For example firestarter. The fire damage is actually much weaker than bleed even in TU 9.0 when SE at is strongest. What make that skill so broken is its high base damage, and the fact you can spam it. The SE nerf in TU 9.1 actually hit some of not so popular skill the most. Such as flame sticky bomb, which completely lost its one shot potential against no armor target. Don't forget it's a skill that requires pinpoint aim and 20s charge time...
In conclusion, SE build is killed in PvP, not for balance, not for diversity. But for (voiced) community pressure, who should really study the problem first before call out for a nerf...
Senior Member
Any build that can only be countered passively ends up restricting diversity, because you have to throw your own build out of the window to match up your against the enemy.
We've seen this with EDR vs Airburst Seeker mines in The Division 1.6
We've seen this with Explosive resist and skill builds in TD2
We see it everyday with status effect builds.
Exotic resistance is a soft counter until it reaches 100% after which point your build is some bastardized version of itself.
It's ironic that Status Effect build users demand to be able to play "their own build" whenever they want and then turn around and throw shade and condescending remarks about hazard protection.
There needs to be more ways to cleanse status effects for this to work...
Member
It depends on the actualy number we are talking about. As for now on live build, SE alone won't kill anymore, even if you got no hazard protection, or even no armor...Originally Posted by sandpants Go to original post
The TU 10 version, it just doesn't hurt. Then why bother..
Member
BTW, just took a look of sticky bomb flame version. It does 400k dmg now at max tier all SE/Skill dmg...
This is what happen if you just blindly nerf a damage type without considering each indiviual skill difference. It's a sticky version with much smaller radius, which basically can only damage single target, unlike the explosive one, yet it only does 1/3 of the explosion damage, and the fire damage(damage over time) is like nothing to begining with. Meanwhile firestarter is still pretty strong (what's already strong on the live build), 500k damage base, and you can even boost that with tech hive...Love the "balance"...
Senior Member
There are only 2 numbers to talk about.Originally Posted by ashered Go to original post
100% resistance
And not 100% resistance.
If I have 50% burn resistance, then all of the **** associated with the burn is still going to bug me around sporadically - ADS block, no sprint, etc.
If I have 100% burn resistance then I am immune and your build is useless.
Now what? You have to change your build, to something that is no longer your build..
It's a bad system and one of the core reasons why PvP sucks. You need to do inventory gymnastics or just suck up dumb **** that
1) kills you out of nowhere
2) ***** around with your controls
3) requires minimum effort on the opponents part
4) has no actual engaging interactivity.
Magic holster that puts you on fire for no reason other than it exists and is equipped.
No fun allowed!
Give us more ways to cleanse status effects and I maybe then we can talk about status effects dealing 70k per tick with no line of sight...
Member
You just don't know what killed you do youOriginally Posted by sandpants Go to original post
Burn damage itself doesn't even hurt on the live build(20k-30k/ticket). What killed you is the base damage of the firestarter. And Hazard protection won't help there, cos IT'S NOT FIRE DAMAGE!
Don't give me like everything needs an active counter BS, hazard protection is good as it not only reduce the SE duration but also damage, so at 50%, it's 100% reducation in total damage. Speak of low effort. It really depends on which skill we are talking about. And generally speaking, those skills are not the only low effort thing in game(dilemma set) ...And on ther other hand, how come hitting one sticky bomb directly on the target every 20s is any lower effort than simply spamming M1A...
Senior Member
Originally Posted by ashered Go to original post
They do.
I'm not in denial - every balance attempt has so far been a pendulum swing.
I have never observed there to be consensus on skill damage / status effect damage.
It is always either to big or too small because this is not an "X marks the spot" kind of problem.
Give us ways to interact with these organic game mechanics reactively and not passively - I CBA to "debate" whether 70k or 17k DOT damage is the "right" number. It is subjective and dumb because you cite 1 number and I can find youtube footage of completely different numbers.
Senior Member
Imo, but Full Status effect build should be able to kill 6red 0HP players alone with bleed or fire damage. I mean, there is nothing wrond with that. Throw 10HP from your watches and 20% on your gear and you already have 30%, which menas you are completely safe from it.
This should be baseline and balance should dance around it.
People with 2 or 3 ST and +20-30% SE will damage only base armor with their bleed or fire, so nothing extremely strong here. Pick one armor slot and you are safe. Again.
Member
TU 9.1 is already a big nerf on SE. I play PvP with SE and skill build daily, don't need a youtube video to tell me otherwise. Clearly you are the type don't know what you are calling nerf upon as I said eariler...Originally Posted by sandpants Go to original post
And do notice we are talking about SE DAMAGE, currently some people who abuse that holster the most ain't even building for SE/Skill damage. They just have a extra slot in the Dilemma or other DPS tank build for some extra annoynece. Like you said, even if fire damage only does 1k/ticket actually won't affact them, cos you still can't aim on fire, and that's what they want (and thats why i'm actually happy for the holster change). On the other hand, for real SE and skill build that means the world. Cos their shots won't hurt and their faces are soft anyway.
Again, it's all depends on which skill/item/talent we are talking about. SE itself is already balanced in TU9.1, and killed in TU10....
Senior Member
I am not calling a nerf.Originally Posted by ashered Go to original post
I am saying we need more varied counters than just resists to make space for stronger DOTs.
I wouldn't mind If DOTs did 80k damage and killed full red in 4s, IF the "counters" were more than just "stick some passive resists".
I am criticizing the monolithic balance system. It's not just status effects.
Deployables are in the same place - one unskilled, tier 0 EMP jammer and it deletes all deployed skills within 30m...
There are plenty of examples like this, it's abundant and not inherently tied to status effects or skills. Cover is equally pathetic because an M44 crit to the pinky toe can 2 shot people.
This game gives players little agency over how the fight progresses (from a build PoV) because it is so heavily tied into picking a "counter" before you even start a fight.
Clearly you are the type that is stuck in tunnel vision and can only measure this game with the numbers that fly out of people...
