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  1. #1

    About the reworks

    Most of them were very decent, so props to the balancing team. However that are two that lacked improvements: Shugoki and Glad.

    Both of thse characters were already bad prior to the rework, and somehow now they are even worse.

    Shugoki:

    We know the common usage of option selects in this game. Since almost every hero is gaining a dogde heavy now, this is becoming more and more usual. With that in mind, we would expect new mix ups to have something to deal with them, like Kensei soft feint HA heavy, Zerker HA lights and heavies, etc.

    With the nerf of the hug, Shugoki lost his way to deal with option selects. All he has now is feiting to neutral. Bash options selects already were a problem for the big guy, now he can even attack without being option selected. That is valid for every single hero he will go against.

    To compensate for this ridiculous nerf, they gave him the worse bash of the game. The dogde one on top of being reactable deals a laughable 10 damage. Although the combo one is unreactable for most, it is predictable once it can only be accessed after a opener and there are many dogde attacks that can option select the headbutt and the heavy finisher.

    To summarize. Now the hero has no good mix ups, no openers, and relies on punishing bashes with a insignificant 10 damage slow bash. A character there before was only feared by new players, now can be bullied by everyone.

    Lower the damage of his heavies and give HA to the hug again. Maybe 28 for his heavy finisher, 34 for charged side opener, 36 charged top opener, 32 charged top finisher and 30 charged side finisher.

    With this change he will be ok, and people that were complaning about his "Op HeAbIeS" will stop.

    Glad:

    I woudl expect nerfing Shugoki to a deplorable state, as noob redditos complained about him like monkeys for seasons. However, nerfing Glad? Why? The character was trash since his release. I don't record the last time I lost to a Glad. Why?

    I don't play with Glad, so I can't explain why he is so bad; but my God he is garbage.

    I guess because he had no real openers, and his chain pressure was bad. The only thing he had was his OOS pressure.

    Now he has an opener that guarantees no damage that leads to a weak chain pressure. And he lost his OOS pressure.

    Please, make his Toe Stab unbalance, but it makes the target regain stamina once it does it. That way, he will still be something and whoever the idiot that was complaning about him will hoipefully stop.

    Quick note: The real unhealthy heroes are Conq and BP. If some hero deserves a rework to be nerfed is these two dudes. Almost 3 years of cancer Conq and BP to get Shugoki and Glad nerfed lmao

    But again, well done on the other heroes.
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  2. #2
    MayanKingGaming's Avatar Senior Member
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    "Quick note: The real unhealthy heroes are Conq and BP"

    While I don´t agree entirely with the other points you made, this note is absolute right.

    BP has a lot of privileges, even so absurd like speed of light recoveries.
    Conq is a case in where defense is so strong , cause his offense is limited, and add the best zone option select to the mix... not to mention, block on dodge. A FREAKING ANNOYING TURTLE ON HIGH LEVEL.
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  3. #3
    Goki got massively better. I don't know why you'd bring up bash option selects and then ask for a change that won't tackle that. HA on hug didn't save him from bash selects. Hug itself is still pretty meme since it has 100ms of GB vuln. Meaning you can actually OS with it against people trying to feint bait. Far as his headbutt goes People aren't going to consistently react to it. People struggle to react to Cent kick which has the exact same delay window and speed. Even if you fight someone who can react to his headbutt goki can chain into a heavy which has 100ms of GB vuln since it's a chain heavy, has early enough HA to trade with most dodge attacks when dodge attacking on reaction, and is chargable. Like if you want to look at a meme bash that's actually bad look at Gryphons.


    Glad was nerfed and also buffed. Toe stab losing the ability to imbalance is probably the smallest nerf he got. It's a 600ms bash with a very reactable animation. The people who would eat a random toe stab in OOS probably also would fall for skewer. Skewer still imbalances OOS people and still leads to some insane gank combos damage wise. If someone dodges your toe stab while they're OOS just chain into skewer. It'll actually force them to do something.

    The important nerf Glad got was how much revenge skewer gives now. That shortens the gap between cent and him for ganker pick quite significantly. It prevents pretty much all 100-0 setups glad used to have. But i'd almost count that as "who cares" When glad's ganks still output far too much damage because of how much damage skewer does on it's own. I understand that being able to kill someone in a gank as quick as possible is important when going for rotations. At the same time in every other situation the person is dead as soon as they run out of revenge. So unless the person can sucessfully stall until some peel arrives glad's still going to be hilariously annoying to deal with in a gank. In my opinion the amount of places he can link into his skewer is a big enough buff to offset the nerfs he took. Plus toe stab does 15 damage thanks to haymaker and the damage buff it got. So it's not like the move is dead now without OOS knocking.

    I don't like that they removed the blind on his bashes since it almost made skewer a consistent mix up. But fine, Hopefully the tracking was buffed on skewer because that's the main thing that keeps it from being an okay mix up.
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  4. #4
    MayanKingGaming's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
    Goki got massively better. I don't know why you'd bring up bash option selects and then ask for a change that won't tackle that. HA on hug didn't save him from bash selects. Hug itself is still pretty meme since it has 100ms of GB vuln. Meaning you can actually OS with it against people trying to feint bait. Far as his headbutt goes People aren't going to consistently react to it. People struggle to react to Cent kick which has the exact same delay window and speed. Even if you fight someone who can react to his headbutt goki can chain into a heavy which has 100ms of GB vuln since it's a chain heavy, has early enough HA to trade with most dodge attacks when dodge attacking on reaction, and is chargable. Like if you want to look at a meme bash that's actually bad look at Gryphons.


    Glad was nerfed and also buffed. Toe stab losing the ability to imbalance is probably the smallest nerf he got. It's a 600ms bash with a very reactable animation. The people who would eat a random toe stab in OOS probably also would fall for skewer. Skewer still imbalances OOS people and still leads to some insane gank combos damage wise. If someone dodges your toe stab while they're OOS just chain into skewer. It'll actually force them to do something.

    The important nerf Glad got was how much revenge skewer gives now. That shortens the gap between cent and him for ganker pick quite significantly. It prevents pretty much all 100-0 setups glad used to have. But i'd almost count that as "who cares" When glad's ganks still output far too much damage because of how much damage skewer does on it's own. I understand that being able to kill someone in a gank as quick as possible is important when going for rotations. At the same time in every other situation the person is dead as soon as they run out of revenge. So unless the person can sucessfully stall until some peel arrives glad's still going to be hilariously annoying to deal with in a gank. In my opinion the amount of places he can link into his skewer is a big enough buff to offset the nerfs he took. Plus toe stab does 15 damage thanks to haymaker and the damage buff it got. So it's not like the move is dead now without OOS knocking.

    I don't like that they removed the blind on his bashes since it almost made skewer a consistent mix up. But fine, Hopefully the tracking was buffed on skewer because that's the main thing that keeps it from being an okay mix up.
    I actually enjoy tremendously to fight against gokis now, not because I always win, (I don´t) because any cheap play is gone, when they beat me is because they are good and know how to do mind games and the like.
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by MayanKingGaming Go to original post
    I actually enjoy tremendously to fight against gokis now, not because I always win, (I don´t) because any cheap play is gone, when they beat me is because they are good and know how to do mind games and the like.
    Yeah I enjoy goki both to play as and against now.
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  6. #6
    I leave this here:




    Shugoki is S tier, no question about it.



    Gladiator is a meta hero in 4v4, and the important aspects actually got better. Don't understand your statement about no openers, he has the zone, and he has very fast lights, skewer and toestab for chain pressure. He also has disgustingly good deflect punish, extremely strong skewer punish, his out of stamina pressure is still above avarage, and he is probably the best ganker right now. The toestab would have been disgustingly broken if it would unbalance, I am so glad they got rid of it, it was extremely irritating that a 500ms bash could unbalance you. Like, Jörm's whole selling point was good out of stamina pressure, and Glad had far better.
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  7. #7
    MrBdur's Avatar Senior Member
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    WHAT?!?!?!?!?

    Goki was strong AF and always has been when played correctly. Glad was already one of the best assassins.

    Glad is better now than pre rework. Overall, he was buffed. In the TG, Glad was easily the number 1 and was too strong.

    Goki is sooooooo much healthier now and still an ABSOLUTE MONSTER.

    If you think these 2 are now weak by any means, then you need some practice.

    I'd be happy to show you how to be effective with them if you're on Xbox.
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  8. #8
    Originally Posted by MrBdur Go to original post
    WHAT?!?!?!?!?

    Goki was strong AF and always has been when played correctly. Glad was already one of the best assassins.

    Glad is better now than pre rework. Overall, he was buffed. In the TG, Glad was easily the number 1 and was too strong.

    Goki is sooooooo much healthier now and still an ABSOLUTE MONSTER.

    If you think these 2 are now weak by any means, then you need some practice.

    I'd be happy to show you how to be effective with them if you're on Xbox.
    Do you know what a option select is? Cuz if you did you would understand how Goki and Glad actually were.
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  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Goat_of_Vermund Go to original post
    I leave this here:




    Shugoki is S tier, no question about it.



    Gladiator is a meta hero in 4v4, and the important aspects actually got better. Don't understand your statement about no openers, he has the zone, and he has very fast lights, skewer and toestab for chain pressure. He also has disgustingly good deflect punish, extremely strong skewer punish, his out of stamina pressure is still above avarage, and he is probably the best ganker right now. The toestab would have been disgustingly broken if it would unbalance, I am so glad they got rid of it, it was extremely irritating that a 500ms bash could unbalance you. Like, Jörm's whole selling point was good out of stamina pressure, and Glad had far better.
    Bruh what???? Are we watching the same vid. What I saw was the zerker reacting to every headbutt and option selecting every shugo mix up. Most of the damage from the Shugo came from parries. What even is this. Remeber, his rework just came out, if people are already option selecting and reacting to everything imagine the state of this dude on the next months.

    "disgustingly good" 2 damage on HA or bleed damage that takes forever to actually do something. It was only disgustingly good next to a wall. Why Toe was annoying you just needed to dogde. I play like 3 hours a week this game and can decently dogde most Toes. Even if he caughts me I usually still win. With which heroes do you play?
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  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
    Goki got massively better. I don't know why you'd bring up bash option selects and then ask for a change that won't tackle that. HA on hug didn't save him from bash selects. Hug itself is still pretty meme since it has 100ms of GB vuln. Meaning you can actually OS with it against people trying to feint bait. Far as his headbutt goes People aren't going to consistently react to it. People struggle to react to Cent kick which has the exact same delay window and speed. Even if you fight someone who can react to his headbutt goki can chain into a heavy which has 100ms of GB vuln since it's a chain heavy, has early enough HA to trade with most dodge attacks when dodge attacking on reaction, and is chargable. Like if you want to look at a meme bash that's actually bad look at Gryphons.


    Glad was nerfed and also buffed. Toe stab losing the ability to imbalance is probably the smallest nerf he got. It's a 600ms bash with a very reactable animation. The people who would eat a random toe stab in OOS probably also would fall for skewer. Skewer still imbalances OOS people and still leads to some insane gank combos damage wise. If someone dodges your toe stab while they're OOS just chain into skewer. It'll actually force them to do something.

    The important nerf Glad got was how much revenge skewer gives now. That shortens the gap between cent and him for ganker pick quite significantly. It prevents pretty much all 100-0 setups glad used to have. But i'd almost count that as "who cares" When glad's ganks still output far too much damage because of how much damage skewer does on it's own. I understand that being able to kill someone in a gank as quick as possible is important when going for rotations. At the same time in every other situation the person is dead as soon as they run out of revenge. So unless the person can sucessfully stall until some peel arrives glad's still going to be hilariously annoying to deal with in a gank. In my opinion the amount of places he can link into his skewer is a big enough buff to offset the nerfs he took. Plus toe stab does 15 damage thanks to haymaker and the damage buff it got. So it's not like the move is dead now without OOS knocking.

    I don't like that they removed the blind on his bashes since it almost made skewer a consistent mix up. But fine, Hopefully the tracking was buffed on skewer because that's the main thing that keeps it from being an okay mix up.
    With which heroes do you play?

    I'm waiting for Freeze vid about Goki's headbutt cuz I fought a rep 76 dude that could react to it. Not only bash option selects, now ANY kind of option selects destroy goki. You only lose to a Goki when you want.

    I don't care about 4s. I just know the guy was trash in duels, and now he is even worse. When I duel a high rep Glad I'm letting he win at least 1 cuz I know he just came from a defeat streak.
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