1. #11
    KrayZee_'s Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Fallen-Champ Go to original post
    I think the issue is that Campaign Dictates and until this changes the Multiplayer side will ALWAYS come off second best
    I fully agree that some maps would just not be fun Solo / Coop or PvP if everyone was running around burning the whole map up it would cause havoc on the frame rate and players would be spawning setting on fire and dying so would get old very quickly.

    At the same time the flamethrower in FC5 for multiplayer is a laughing stock, you can set someone on fire (or try to burn them) that player can pull out a weak pistol or most other weapons and stand there and kill you so the flame thrower has become a weapon most don't use very often in PvP. (so sad because it could be lethal)

    People asked after release if the weapon could have the damage cranked up but my thoughts are to do this it would also happen in the solo campaign as Arcade is all linked so whatever the damage is in solo it's the same in Arcade (unsure if you guys think the same ?)

    The same thing with the 50.Cal possibly other sniper rifles, I rarely use them in PvP - it was one shot kill anywhere on the body and we asked for head-shot kill with 1 shot anywhere else make it 2 or 3 shots depending if it's torso arms legs.

    Now if they had separate weapons and vehicles for PvP that had different settings then we could have the flamethrower doing more damage, maybe have the flame shoot a little longer, with vehicles we could have increased speed or even a power up - there would be so much more we could have if they were not tied in together Campaign and Arcade.

    I will add to this that in the solo campaign we have a crazy amount of time under water before we drown, going back to Far Cry 2 falling into that water we didn't live long at all and with Far Cry 3 they had those oxygen tanks you could collect to get extra oxygen, same with fire we start getting burned and appear to have a long time before we die - they could so easily drop the length of time it takes to die in water or when burned for Multiplayer / Arcade, the mention of Fire Extinguishers is a good thing too we had those in Far Cry 3 and with Far Cry 4 we had those oxygen masks which stopped the player dying at altitude in the snow - would love to see all that stuff return it could make for very creative maps where you have to find things to go a certain way, blocking areas unless the player gets the correct items to pass through, maybe extinguishing flames so other players can find a short cut etc.
    You can set the map on fire when playing Firestorm in Far Cry 3 multiplayer and frame rate doesn't seem to be an issue... at least to me it isn't. I didn't mind the weapon damage output that much but I wish they would have added map editor tips explaining how to balance maps in terms of weapons, vehicles and limiting the amount of ammo, equipment and throwables one can carry in their loadout instead of giving them all of the ammo in the world. When you're saving Liza Snow, you shoot the pipes and then the water pouring out will extinguish the fire. Oxygen tanks and masks should absolutely return and also useable for Arcade. I did write suggestions in my wishlist thread where you can pickup keys, picklocks and repair torches to open up doors and safes as seen in Far Cry 5's story mode. Key cards from Far Cry 1 can apply here too.

    Originally Posted by Steve64b Go to original post
    Question: if someone uses the flamethrower to set the environment on fire, and another player is killed by that fire spreading, does the kill get awarded to the person who lit up the place?

    If so, the flamethrower could be pretty useful when people just want to watch the world burn.
    I'm not sure. I have set houses on fire with incendiary rounds in my shotgun but I always assumed they were empty when I'm not getting any kills off of it. I'd have to test this out. When I'm in a building that's on fire, I tend to evacuate.

    Originally Posted by Fallen-Champ Go to original post
    Guessing no but you have me thinking now (my heart hopes it works that way but my head is saying no the player would die like a suicide - great question we need an answer, someone has to test this)
    If I destroy an explosive barrel & a player dies in the blast I get the kill so you would think it would work that way with fire too, if I use my own flamethrower and kill myself it's a suicide and really the player or team should lose one point for doing that but it's also a difficult one because if say 6 players on one team got caught up in the same fire set from a flame thrower then all those on the same team I believe would act as a suicide so no points gained or lost so would seam unfair in a way if the opposite team all lost lives and the team starting the fire gained points from it.

    Arcade scoring could have been set up better, if I jump off the map to my death the player or team should lose a point, if an animal kills me again it should be the same outcome.
    I agree. As for animals, you can spawn bears, cougars and wolves with bait if they're interested. When these animals are mauling players, I'd say the player deserves a point for it.


    Originally Posted by GameGuru2018 Go to original post
    Get used to it!
    No.
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  2. #12
    Fallen-Champ's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by KrayZee_ Go to original post
    You can set the map on fire when playing Firestorm in Far Cry 3 multiplayer and frame rate doesn't seem to be an issue...
    Firestorm seemed like an amazing mode when Daniel Berlin announced it, unfortunately it only worked on the Ubisoft Maps we could not place down fire to block areas in the editor
    I played this mode quite a lot but it was not good, the way I saw it was the fire spread and cut off specific paths - I found that more often than not the Spawns placed the player in front of these paths so they did not always have to select a different route because they were placed in front of the blockage and often missed even seeing the fire.

    The actual transmission section of the game brought in new spawns (the green ones) and that destroyed far too many matches for me, usually one team was dominating then the other team would all spawn around the radar, it forced a lot of matched to drag on and on, they were either over too quick as one team had no clue what to do or it was like watching paint dry - very dull.

    If scripts worked properly in PvP with Far Cry 5 using Mods (they are buggy and a joining player or player killed and in transition of spawning when the script is activated) we would then be able to script in fire and a damage volume to block off areas and maybe have a player go to a set area and do something to activate water for a set time then have the fire and water disabled via scripts that would allow us to simulate something like FireStorm in how alternate paths are needed in a map.
    Like you mentioned a fire extinguisher could also be used when found to allow players to get past.
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  3. #13
    KrayZee_'s Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Fallen-Champ Go to original post
    Firestorm seemed like an amazing mode when Daniel Berlin announced it, unfortunately it only worked on the Ubisoft Maps we could not place down fire to block areas in the editor
    I played this mode quite a lot but it was not good, the way I saw it was the fire spread and cut off specific paths - I found that more often than not the Spawns placed the player in front of these paths so they did not always have to select a different route because they were placed in front of the blockage and often missed even seeing the fire.

    The actual transmission section of the game brought in new spawns (the green ones) and that destroyed far too many matches for me, usually one team was dominating then the other team would all spawn around the radar, it forced a lot of matched to drag on and on, they were either over too quick as one team had no clue what to do or it was like watching paint dry - very dull.

    If scripts worked properly in PvP with Far Cry 5 using Mods (they are buggy and a joining player or player killed and in transition of spawning when the script is activated) we would then be able to script in fire and a damage volume to block off areas and maybe have a player go to a set area and do something to activate water for a set time then have the fire and water disabled via scripts that would allow us to simulate something like FireStorm in how alternate paths are needed in a map.
    Like you mentioned a fire extinguisher could also be used when found to allow players to get past.
    I hardly played Far Cry 3 multiplayer so I didn't know about this. Far Cry Arcade has so much untapped potential. If only gamers were more grateful and Ubisoft had yearly roadmaps for Far Cry Arcade like they do for other Ubisoft games. I wouldn't even mind if Far Cry has it's own Battle Royale mode since some people have already made Battle Royale style maps in Far Cry Arcade. Battlefield V has its own Firestorm game mode and that's already a blueprint for Far Cry since Far Cry has wingsuits and parachutes. If scripts worked properly for multiplayer, there's a lot of ideas I would be thinking of. In fact, I'd prefer a friendly AI flying a helicopter and a player would grapple onto these helicopters and start swinging around like in single player. I would have a Gun for Hire such as Jess Black flying a helicopter and I would order her around via waypoints on the map. If this was possible in Far Cry Arcade, I would add a flying helicopter in the sky as scenery. When a player grapples onto the helicopter, I'd like to see this trigger an event that orders the pilot to fly the helicopter to specific directions. I have a lot of ideas I could think of when it comes to scripting. Speaking of ideas, I'm thinking of adding more ideas to my wishlist thread.
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  4. #14
    Originally Posted by GameGuru2018 Go to original post
    Get used to it!


    Forgot.....

    Good flamethrower is not enough.


    We should have a good Water Jet as well.

    Anti-weapon.

    It can be something like this....





    And like this.....



    Agreed, we need more exotic/ flamethrower-styled weapons - and it is a good idea to start with the flamethrower to push this category.
    Handguns, rifles ... these are very nice, we need a lot of them. But not only. I don't want to say: These things are bad in general, but all other games have them in masses, too. Far Cry has the possibility to push ... yes: other kind of weapons ... because it fits to it. (Talking over the Far Cry main games here, not only about spinoffs.)

    I always wonder myself if I see in some games non-projectile weapons: Okay, nice - we have this things (mostly it is a flamethrower) as >>only one<< exotic, non-projectile weapon. ... but why only one? Any why exactly this one? At least there should be like 4 or 5 different types of this kind of weapon (of the flamethrower).

    How to push it?
    In details: The first step would be to push the flamethrower of course: Give it add-ons in the game, make it stronger/ more useful in specific situations; maybe add some different ammo types. For Example: Using burning gas has a better range and a faster attack; using a burning liquid makes the ground burn longer (even if there is nothing that can burn) plus it makes more damage if an enemy is hit.
    Other muzzles could push the range or the sperad. And so on.

    Second step:
    Also other exotic/ flamethrower-styled weapons, like the water-weapons GameGuru2018 mentioned, could be used as separate weapons (or if it fits to the weapon: different ammo types) as alternative to flamethrowers.

    There is a whole list of different things a flamethrower-styled gun can fire:

    - Fire (burning gas, burning liquid or modern burning projectiles - similar to the signal gun especially in Far Cry 2)
    - Water (thx for the interessting examples), could be also used to blow out a fire
    - Chemicals (with different effects: kill enemies (Geneva Convention? Forgotten it at home ...), remove leaves (to spot and stun enemies) ... there are a lot of (also realistic) possibilities
    - 'Drugs' (make enemies "insane" and they kill each other - we have this already -; or they are harmeless and dance and won't notice you
    - Air -> plus: Self-Made Grenades (similar to a potato canon) which are filled with explosives, bees (inspired by Far Cry Primal), snakes (like Black Mambas) ... and so on
    - Smoke (not only as smoke grenade alternative; it could make enemies run out of smaller buildings if you fill the buildings with smoke (also they are stunned); or it would make enemies crash in their vehicles if the player fires it out of his own vehicle during a pursuit. Maybe a more realistic 'James Bond '-like vehicle weapon, too?)
    - Explosive gas or liquid mixtures: Primary attack: fire liquid or create clouds; Secondary attack: Fire a flare or use a microwave to ignite the mixture.
    - Proton Pack ... just kidding, it's licensed ...
    - A constant working air gun (like a little jet turbine) can fire spreading projectiles like a shotgun, but in opposite to a shotgun not all at once: Each split second like 2 or 3 with different angles; a whole new feeling - years ago I used something like this for a small and private game mod of ... don't know what it was? Maybe Half-Life 1 ... I mean, imagine a jet turbine and a pack of nails that you drop into the stream ... ouch!

    And if we say it like this:
    There is one weapon slot only for a flamethrower-styled weapon than uses a backpack (with ammo or as a tank) ... we also could use minigun-styled weapons in interessting variations: the classic minigun, minigus with shotgun ammo ... (or the japanese "mighty water rifle" ... which also could be upgraded with dangerous projectiles for a use in Far Cry )
    Also oversized shotguns would be possible: Reloaded each shot of course, but the backpack makes it realisitic to carry the ammo for it (and can be added into the animation of course). Also heavy weapons could be hold easier if they are fixed to a backpack.
    And: Also magnetic rifles (realisitc rail-guns) are possible this way.

    Maybe even some more realistic/a bit self made looking energy weapons are possible; like:

    - Laser/excimer-laser [invisible UV-laser] // effect: kills enemies with an invisible beam from the distance instantly, it can damage vehicles and can incinerate the environment (last one: not instantly) [could be used good in stealth, big range]

    - Ion [electric impulse] gun // effect: kills enemies with an bright electric bolt and has a limited range, the EMP can stop cars and ruin electric systems ... forever! Exept they will be repaired ...

    - Particle gun [particle accelerator; like hadron accelerators, ouch!] // effect: heavy, bright and dangerous explosions are created where this effect hits [big range]

    - Air twirl gun ["shockwave" gun] // effect: an massive air twirl is fired which can stun or even kill enemies in closer range ... an more realistic counterpart to the "Magnopulsar" in Far Cry 5, the range should be bigger, but the effect gets weaker with range

    - Infrared [heat] gun // effect: can incinerate the environment instantly and burn enemies ... which will lure more enemies who trie to help (in opposite to the UV-laser) [could be used good in stealth, big range]

    - Plasma [very, very hot stuff] gun [the ultimate flamethrower?] // effect: like a flamethrower in white and maybe blue colors ... if the flames cool down, they look more normal of course - vehicles and enemies are destroyed/killed nearly instantly

    - Terahertz gun [sometimes called microwave gun - even if it doesn't use real microwaves] // effect: an invisible beam can kill enemies with heat even behind (smaller) walls [could be used good in stealth, big range - but the effect gets weaker with bigger range]

    - Neutron accelerator gun [you know, that inhuman bomb?, just as a small weapon in your hand that kills enemies without damaging their car ... // effect: kills enemies with an invisible beam even behind walls (exempt nuclear blast proof walls), no damages to the environment at all, but it might kill plants aswell ... could be also used to distract enemies ... "Oh no, look, everything here dies! A bad sign!" (similar to the fear of the player in Far Cry 2) [could be used good in stealth, big range]

    --> Colorful effects are mostly a no-go here: e. g. infrared, UV-lasers are invisible. Good for stealth players and having fun with an hostile outpost.


    If Ubisoft is able to build an Crossbow that fires (even homing) saw-blades, I am sure they are able to push the flamethrower in realistic and/or more exotic ways.
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  5. #15
    Fallen-Champ's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by KrayZee_ Go to original post
    Battlefield V has its own Firestorm game mode and that's already a blueprint for Far Cry since Far Cry has wingsuits and parachutes.
    Daniel Berlin left after Far Cry 3 and went onto Battlefield, unsure if he is still there, he was a cool guy I got to speak with him at Malmo in the Studio they have, so guessing he was big into that mode.

    Originally Posted by KrayZee_ Go to original post
    I'd prefer a friendly AI flying a helicopter and a player would grapple onto these helicopters and start swinging around like in single player.
    If only we could do this in multiplayer imagine a whole team hanging from grapples attached to a helicopter going to an enemy base, that would be a laugh.
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  6. #16
    Originally Posted by password1234xxx Go to original post
    ........ we need more exotic/ flamethrower-styled weapons - ........

    Yes!

    But without exaggeration!

    Stylish weapons.

    Like this.......Let's call it - "Whip of Hell" or "The Devil's Kiss".




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  7. #17
    Originally Posted by GameGuru2018 Go to original post
    Yes!

    But without exaggeration!

    Stylish weapons.

    Like this.......Let's call it - "Whip of Hell" or "The Devil's Kiss".





    Could be something for the dark post-apocalyptic western theme.

    In a title in which the melee weapons take a higher priority, the 'normal' whip could be in the game. (Also some cool attacking moves could be added for it.) Then imagine it with fire Ouch! And it might fit into the style and the stroy of the possible game.

    ~

    I think in general, Far Cry (especially the main titles) should never be exaggerated; I can imagine this aspect like: some smart DIY-people (who need to fight now) start to construct their own, well working and exotic weapons, which can keep up with the most modern weapons. That would fit into the formula of the Far Cry main titles, also in new ways. The aspect that supressed people who need to fight is a recurring element in the formula.

    I realy never saw a weapon in a videogame that uses scientific (and often impressive) facts in a realistic and not overdone style:
    Example:
    In the most SciFi-Games the weapons have shining and colorful lamps on their sides (lol why?!) and a firework-like muzzleflash. And of course a colorful, too slow moving, (energy) projectile that draws a tracer through the room.
    Problem: The shooter and the fact that a weapon is fired are obvious in ridiculous ways. The tracer points the position of the shooter and the slow moving projectile makes everything even more grotesque. I would choose a revolver instead
    So the question is now, if we talk over exotic weapons: What should be changed that the revolver won't be the thing of choice?! How would an effect of XY realy look like? How would a weapon look like? - A backpack full of car batteries? Massive metal? 3D-Prints? ... and so on ... (but of course: not senseless LEDs that only reveal your position ...)

    (Maybe it is a good idea to check some ... well: Let's call them: private weapon designers/constructors in the internet to get some inspirations. There are for example working (underpowered) "Railguns" that some people (- true ... who obvously had a bit to much time -) build of car batteries; or similar things like the japanese "Water Impulse Canon". Also the most physics teachers can explain how it would look, if for example: a ("real"/realistic looking) particle beam is fired ... and what would and could happen at the place where it (instantly) hits. The same counts for a chemistry teacher if we talk over things like: flamethrowers ... and different ammo types.)

    Yes, sadly a lot of scifi or even modern day shooters mutate very fast into "circus styled games". Too many awesome but unfitting effects which are just unrealistic (and can even break immersion) create that perceived as superficial style. Too many not considered facts are a risk of create some "childish" things.
    (I don't say: We don't need big effects or explosions -> but plasma for example isn't green and draws no rings :/ I don't say: the "Magnopulsar" [Far Cry 5] is for kids or ruins the game, ... it is a funny sidekick. But only these kind of weapons ... dangerous for the immersion in a main title(!) (maybe not in a DLC or Spin-Off). :/ I don't say: We need only in reality working exotic weapons - of course not: But they should be believable. No need for a DIY-manual for each weapon [hell no!], but they should be like: "Oh, this thing looks realistic, it works realistic, is useful and strong. It could be real ..." of course it is still overpowered, but it shouldn't use accidentally the "circus style".
    And: Far Cry can go other ways here, especially with the main titles. This way is still open ... yet ...

    In Spin-Offs the freedom is much bigger of course.
    Some DLCs or SpinOffs (like Blood Dragen) can be colorful of course. ... or dark

    The risk in pushing products to be always "bigger and better" is to become just goofy. And it rises every time you try to push them. But who even said to you: Create bigger and better products (games) every time? You to yourself, because you want to sell bigger and better every time. Which won't work with a goofy product of course. Create something new and interessting. How? Push aspects which no one expected into smart and fitting directions which no one expected ...

    ... like the (Far Cry 3 (2012) - New Dawn (2019)) flamethrower into not overdone and exotic weapons. ... for example
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  8. #18
    password1234xxx, Sci-Fi Far Cry is Sci-Fi Far Cry. Its another story.

    But Far Cry 6 hardly will be Sci-Fi. It will be closer to reality, I think.

    And such weapon as a Whip, in general, is rather fit Far Cry. A game about province and rural, life.

    Whip, bullwhip, can - 1) take weapons from enemies' hands

    2) grab enemies' necks and legs

    3) painful and distracting lash. Eyes = blindness.

    4) Two whips using or Deadly Boss. With two long bullwhips. May be burning and waving very fast. Whips that will be able to touch us behind the objects. (bullets can't)






    [IMG]blob:https://www.reddit.com/0307b54f-2be5-4a85-bf8b-9583c17db7bd[/IMG]
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  9. #19
    De longis explain it good.....




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  10. #20
    Originally Posted by GameGuru2018 Go to original post
    De longis explain it good.....





    Using the whip and of course other 'cool' melee weapons in Far Cry brings me to the idea: Why not push this aspect, too. The aspect of melee combat. I mean, since Far Cry Primal we have some vary in the melee weapons. We can throw them and so on; they have other damages and attack speeds. But the melee combat system is still a bit ... afterward.

    So why not push it a bit more?!
    There was a good game for the classic XBox and later for the XBox 360 [or similar systems of course] "Riddick Escape from Butchers Bay" [Starbreeze Studios, Vivendi Universal Games, 2004]; sadly the sequel of it was just disappointing. Sure, Riddick has not much to do with a Far Cry. But the melee system was great - and maybe the best for an FPS-game; also compared to the games in the following years. (I personally realy like, that the game didn't changed into 3rd-person or something like that. ... this fits to Far Cry, too.)

    I can imagine something similar to this just mentioned melee system for Far Cry. Maybe something even better. The state of the art makes it possible.
    Weapons like the whip (including a few of the best attack Mr. De Longis showed in the video - for example where the player can disarm enemies -), but also other melee weapons could become something like a 4th way of combat (that could be mixed with the stealth). Also great for close combat, if the player needs to reload the flamethrower or the silenced shotgun; or the player just want to use another style of playing the game.
    There should be classic close combat weapons of course, like knifes and clubs (maybe swords/ sword like weapons if the theme of the game fits to it) up to realy variable weapons like the whip for example.

    The player can evolve skills for each weapon -> better, stronger and special attacks get unlocked ... until he becomes a master with that weapon. As master the player might use these weapons nearly instead projectile weapons or short ranged weapons.

    What weapons could be in the armory? And what moves?
    ... I don't think that I realy need to bring examples for interesting melee weapons and awesome moves/attacks. Ubisoft has not far to seek for ideas - since they are the creators of Assassin's Creed
    Would be realy fun to see some of all the moves in 1st-person ... of course with other themes and styles around me
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