1. #1

    Take Some Anti-Cheating Notes, Ubisoft... Valorant

    https://www.polygon.com/2020/5/12/21...osed-beta-bans

    Here's an example of a company that is doing anti-cheating the right way, Ubi. Farming out anti-cheat to proven failures like BattlEye is not the solution. The correct solution is to commit your company to stamping out cheating and impose the strictest, most powerful anti-cheating measures it is possible to use and then USE them. No slaps on the wrist. No piddly little 24 hour time-outs. You BAN them from your game for LIFE. Period. End of story.

    Learn the lesson. Then apply it.
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  2. #2
    Hear, hear. I don't know how BattlEye runs their company, but if the performance with Siege is any indication? They sound like a Mickey Mouse organization that's phoning it in. Just the other night I was in a match where the bulk of the players on the opposing team were using cheats to remove all the recoil from their weapons. It's the most popular cheat in Siege because it gives the cheater a tremendous advantage in firefights. These cheaters didn't even make any attempt to deny it, they just laughed about it, essentially saying "Like UBI's gonna stop us?" That's what a joke UBI's anti-cheating measures have become. The cheaters aren't afraid of using hacks, because they know they will never be punished and will always win.

    Whatever BattlEye is using to 'monitor' Siege games, it's obvious that it's utterly useless against these recoil hacks. It doesn't seem to do anything to stop the ESP or wallhackers either. So if BattlEye is worthless against THE most prolific hacks and cheats, then what use is it at all?

    I'll be VERY interested to see the 'new measures' UBI says they will be taking to fight cheating. I've already stopped buying year passes for Siege. I've also scaled back on my playing because the cheating is so out of control. I'll do one match, but I'll quit for the night if anybody on the enemy team is obviously cheating. Want to guess how often that means I only play ONE match per night? And if UBI doesn't come roaring out of the gate very soon with some radical, effective, and seriously sustained anti-cheating protocols, then it's gonna be ZERO.
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  3. #3
    BattlEye deserves a lot more credit than what people give it credit for as it aims to eliminate those not just using cheats blatantly but also closet chearing. You can get around HWID and account bans but you can't get around your cheat not working at all anymore.

    Also complaining about recoil as being one of the biggest advantage, people practice their recoil control so you maybe accusing people for using a recoil hack, when they might not even be doing that.

    Ubisoft have addressed this to already this season:
    Ubisoft also confirmed it will be “reinforcing the bridge” between R6 and BattleEye, which is the anti-cheat software used in the game. These updates will automate certain processes and provide feedback faster on banned players.

    The requirements to reach Ranked and Champion rank will be increased to prevent illegitimate accounts from gaining access to these playlists. This should create a healthier environment in the Ranked playlist and will remove any cheaters form the Champion leaderboard. More information on this update will be released closer to Y5S2.
    If you think Ubi aren't aware of the cheating issue, and haven't had a tonne of meetings about it and how to handle it, you're being naive. As players, we're great at spotting issues and telling others this isn't working; however we shouldn't come up with solutions. We're not game devs, and we don't have an ear in the many meetings they have.

    I'd imagine Ubi are tackling this from as many aspects as possible and have also updated their terms and conditions to.

    Edit: I want to add to this, if you're playing a game and have a cheater in. Just don't make it enjoyable for them. If they're on your team, run in front of them to get reverse friendly fire active for them, destroy their gadgets, make it annoying for them as possible. Don't show that you're annoyed in chat/voice as that's what they want. Make the cheaters have an unpleasant experience. Oh and don't forget to clip them cheating and report them using Ubi Support Portal.
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  4. #4
    BattlEye deserves a lot more credit than what people give it credit for as it aims to eliminate those not just using cheats blatantly but also closet chearing.
    I give credit - when credit is due. Cheating is out of control in Siege. Even UBI admits this. If BattlEye was doing a good job of controlling it, we wouldn't be complaining.

    Also complaining about recoil as being one of the biggest advantage, people practice their recoil control so you maybe accusing people for using a recoil hack, when they might not even be doing that.
    Look at these clips. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VlC__bZfjA
    There's no way to grope your mouse that will utterly remove the recoil, as is shown in these clips. They're cheating. And I see stuff like this through the kill cams. Every. Dang. Match. If I recorded every instance of it? I'd have no room left on my hard drive, and it's over 2 Terabytes.

    If you think Ubi aren't aware of the cheating issue, and haven't had a tonne of meetings about it and how to handle it, you're being naive.
    I'm not saying they aren't aware. Just that they're not acting aggressively enough to stop it. They said it was going to be an ongoing process. I'm just holding their feet to the fire and trying to make sure they keep their promises. Whatever they did recently, it's done NOTHING to stop the recoil hacks, ESP and wallhackers. They say stuff like that 'may be coming soon'. We will see.

    As players, we're great at spotting issues and telling others this isn't working; however we shouldn't come up with solutions. We're not game devs, and we don't have an ear in the many meetings they have.
    Why shouldn't the end users propose suggestions and solutions? Especially when UBI are the ones who keep asking for our input? They're darn well going to get it when the product is flawed. If they didn't want our suggestions, they shouldn't have asked.

    I'd imagine Ubi are tackling this from as many aspects as possible and have also updated their terms and conditions to.
    I don't doubt it. All they have to do is SAY they're 'working on it from as many aspects as possible', and that's supposed to mollify everyone. As I said - I'll be VERY interested in seeing what (and if) they actually deliver to put a stop to all the cheating. Because right now, it ain't working. I'm down to one match a night because of these issues. And I liked this game. The people who don't like it have already quit, and the rest of us may follow suit if UBI doesn't get a handle on this. The OP is just showing that it can be done, if the company making the game is serious about it.

    Edit: I want to add to this, if you're playing a game and have a cheater in. Just don't make it enjoyable for them. If they're on your team, run in front of them to get reverse friendly fire active for them, destroy their gadgets, make it annoying for them as possible. Don't show that you're in chat/voice as that's what they want.
    This does nothing to stop the cheaters on the OPPOSING team, which is where the real problem lies. Right now, under the current UBI model of cheat control? The only way for Siege to have a 'fair' match is for an equal number of cheaters to be spread between both teams. I'd prefer it if there were NO cheaters.

    Oh and don't forget to clip them cheating and report them using Ubi Support Portal.
    Been doing this for years. To this day, none of the people reported have ever been banned that I know of. I've never gotten an email or message saying, 'Thank you for providing this evidence. We have banned (so and so) for this gross violation of our end user agreement.' The support portal has been a perfect, textbook example of non-response .

    Anyhoo, the OP was simply showing UBI an example of how cheat control should be done. I'd love to see UBI make statements that forceful and clear, along with actions to back it up.
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  5. #5
    croken717's Avatar Senior Member
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    That's pretty impressive what Valorant is doing, and they're not even out of the starting gate officially yet...much less 5 years in. They know players have had it with cheaters being tolerated (and even protected) by other developers, so they are attracting players who don't want their playtime messed with by cheaters. A pretty good marketing strategy; it's a win for them, and a win for players. They ban people, and they announce it, along with actual numbers. They're sending a clear message that they won't tolerate cheating from the get-go. In the current state of the world, that's the best advertising they could do; talking the talk and walking the walk. Interesting.
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  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Slyrr7 Go to original post
    I give credit - when credit is due. Cheating is out of control in Siege. Even UBI admits this. If BattlEye was doing a good job of controlling it, we wouldn't be complaining.
    And they've stated, they're looking at the processes and improving it with BattlEye.Sure they don't say "we've banned 8000 people today" as you see the bans so damn often ingame from BattlEye. I wouldn't be surprised if the high hundreds got banned in Siege everyday. Cheating in Siege certainly hasn't been helped with everyone at home either, think boredom played some part in more people cheating but I don't know.

    Look at these clips. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VlC__bZfjA
    There's no way to grope your mouse that will utterly remove the recoil, as is shown in these clips. They're cheating. And I see stuff like this through the kill cams. Every. Dang. Match. If I recorded every instance of it? I'd have no room left on my hard drive, and it's over 2 Terabytes.
    You pull down the mouse. It's really not hard. You said about bounce, you pull it down as you're shooting. People control Buck's weapons without little recoil, it's just having control.

    I'm not saying they aren't aware. Just that they're not acting aggressively enough to stop it. They said it was going to be an ongoing process. I'm just holding their feet to the fire and trying to make sure they keep their promises. Whatever they did recently, it's done NOTHING to stop the recoil hacks, ESP and wallhackers. They say stuff like that 'may be coming soon'. We will see.
    It's always an ongoing process. Valorant lasted what, 2 days before people were running rampant in that and hacking almost every other game. Unfortuently anti-cheat is more reactive than proactive.

    Why shouldn't the end users propose suggestions and solutions? Especially when UBI are the ones who keep asking for our input? They're darn well going to get it when the product is flawed. If they didn't want our suggestions, they shouldn't have asked.
    I worded this badly, it's not that we shouldn't come up with solutions, it's more so we only see one side. Coding isn't easy by any means of the imagination. If we really want to provide a solution as a playerbase, it needs to be thought out thoroughly with reasoning. Devs have the numbers, statistics and can see what happens in a lot more depth.

    I don't doubt it. All they have to do is SAY they're 'working on it from as many aspects as possible', and that's supposed to mollify everyone. As I said - I'll be VERY interested in seeing what (and if) they actually deliver to put a stop to all the cheating. Because right now, it ain't working. I'm down to one match a night because of these issues. And I liked this game. The people who don't like it have already quit, and the rest of us may follow suit if UBI doesn't get a handle on this. The OP is just showing that it can be done, if the company making the game is serious about it.
    There is not a single FPS game out there that doesn't have cheats available. Warzone? Has cheaters. Valorant? Has cheaters. Fortnite? Has cheaters. CS:GO? Has cheaters.

    This does nothing to stop the cheaters on the OPPOSING team, which is where the real problem lies. Right now, under the current UBI model of cheat control? The only way for Siege to have a 'fair' match is for an equal number of cheaters to be spread between both teams. I'd prefer it if there were NO cheaters.
    Which is why it needs to be a community thing. If there's cheaters on the opposing team, don't react to them. Report them and hope their team mates have some decency to make the game not fun for the cheaters.

    Been doing this for years. To this day, none of the people reported have ever been banned that I know of. I've never gotten an email or message saying, 'Thank you for providing this evidence. We have banned (so and so) for this gross violation of our end user agreement.' The support portal has been a perfect, textbook example of non-response .
    I have the opposite experience. Usually it can take a day or two for them to get banned, but they do.

    Anyhoo, the OP was simply showing UBI an example of how cheat control should be done. I'd love to see UBI make statements that forceful and clear, along with actions to back it up.
    I get that, but Ubi have already done their statement by saying their aware and looking at the improvements they can do with BattlEye. Great, Valorant banned 8000 people who were cheating, I'm sure those cheaters will probably be active again on there.
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  7. #7
    croken717's Avatar Senior Member
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    And while it appears that BattleEye is trash, and if I were Ubisoft I'd be having a serious talk with the Vendor Management department...I must say on behalf of us console players...at least you got "sumthin". XIM and Strikepack cheaters get away with bloody murder on console every day, and all they need to do to enable their cheats is to order the hardware from Walmart or Gamestop.
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  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Danwolf. Go to original post
    And they've stated, they're looking at the processes and improving it with BattlEye.Sure they don't say "we've banned 8000 people today" as you see the bans so damn often ingame from BattlEye. I wouldn't be surprised if the high hundreds got banned in Siege everyday. Cheating in Siege certainly hasn't been helped with everyone at home either, think boredom played some part in more people cheating but I don't know.
    They can say all they want about 'they are improving it' its been 4 years since the last major cheat crack down (the one that nearly killed siege at the beginning of the game) I dont see any 'improvements' being made. I still see blatant cheaters teleporting to spawns and OHK everyone in 1 second. I still see prep phase cheaters (stuff that should have built in measure to instantly detect and ban a cheater)

    Ubisoft have done nothing but allow cheaters to fester and to be frank, there is no fixing this. there are so many closet cheaters in siege now (thanks to a lack of control by ubisoft) you could end up fixing the anti cheat at one stage but could find 25%+ of your players getting banned (a good thing) but also makes for an extremely bad PR move as it will just show how bad siege was when it came to cheaters.

    Either way, Ubisoft have had 4 years to fix this and only now 'have they started' its pathetic and a joke. look how long it took them to fix the console DDos issue. or the DDos over VOIP on PC. so many problems that took far, far too long for Ubisoft to act upon. a game that has apparently 60 million players and they cannot even improve the anti cheat.
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  9. #9
    And they've stated, they're looking at the processes and improving it with BattlEye.
    In other news - after it smacked into an iceberg the owners and operators of the Titanic have CLEARLY stated that they are looking at their deck chairs to find a way to improve their arrangement.

    Look, we applaud anything that helps ... but improving BattlEye is only going to be a slight fiddling of the margins. It's nothing to get excited about. It's not going to substantively improve anything. If BattlEye was any good at dealing with the ESP hacks, the scripting, M&K cheating on consoles, and so on then we wouldn't be where we are today. To actually address the cheating that is common in Siege today it is going to take a lot more than just fiddling with a few of the knobs and dials on BattlEye. Again - any improvement is SOMETHING ... but goofing off with BattlEye is nothing but bunting.


    You pull down the mouse. It's really not hard.



    You aren't picking up what the clip is putting down and it comes off as a bit of reality-denial. That clip is clearly someone using a recoil script to entirely remove recoil. The reticle isn't moving vertically at all. No amount of "pull down" can do what is happening in that clip. And Slyrr is right ... that sort of cheating is happening in every match. People who pretend that it's perfectly normal for weapons to not have one pixel of vertical recoil are living in denial. When there's no vertical recoil, it's cheating. Period. End of story. Anyone who says otherwise is absolutely 100% wrong.

    Coding isn't easy by any means of the imagination. If we really want to provide a solution as a playerbase, it needs to be thought out thoroughly with reasoning. Devs have the numbers, statistics and can see what happens in a lot more depth.
    No one denies that coding is difficult. But as you say .. Ubi has the stats. The problem is that they aren't USING the information they have. Every player has statistics that are generated as they play. All that data ... every iota of it ... should be used to detect and ban cheaters. When a player runs around with zero vertical recoil on their weapon they should get banned. When players are somehow magically able to track a player through three walls to get perfectly timed shots then they should be banned. When players move faster than they should be able to ... appear in places they shouldn't be able to get to ... and perform any in-game feats that their statistics say are out of the ordinary then they should be banned.

    We have the solution. The solution is to use the facts, data, and information that Ubisoft already has at their disposal to analyze and ban players who are performing at levels that the game's design shows as unfeasible. They have the data. They should use it. Aggressively.
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  10. #10
    Originally Posted by qecqecqecKing Go to original post
    They can say all they want about 'they are improving it' its been 4 years since the last major cheat crack down (the one that nearly killed siege at the beginning of the game) I dont see any 'improvements' being made. I still see blatant cheaters teleporting to spawns and OHK everyone in 1 second. I still see prep phase cheaters (stuff that should have built in measure to instantly detect and ban a cheater)

    Ubisoft have done nothing but allow cheaters to fester and to be frank, there is no fixing this. there are so many closet cheaters in siege now (thanks to a lack of control by ubisoft) you could end up fixing the anti cheat at one stage but could find 25%+ of your players getting banned (a good thing) but also makes for an extremely bad PR move as it will just show how bad siege was when it came to cheaters.

    Either way, Ubisoft have had 4 years to fix this and only now 'have they started' its pathetic and a joke. look how long it took them to fix the console DDos issue. or the DDos over VOIP on PC. so many problems that took far, far too long for Ubisoft to act upon. a game that has apparently 60 million players and they cannot even improve the anti cheat.
    And not only that - there are still some people (perhaps even in this thread) who seem to be trying to make excuses for all the cheating. Either saying 'they're trying'. Or 'It's too hard', they seem to want to try and browbeat us into giving in and putting up with it. You have to wonder why. Even when confronted with clear video proof of the recoil scripts, there are some people who still insist that it's not cheating, trying to tell us that 'Oh, they're just really good at groping the mouse'.

    It's tough to know if they really think that isn't cheating, or if they're just being stubborn. There's no way to 'drag' a mouse in such a way as to eliminate all recoil the way that we see every day through the kill cams. Yet we still get people saying 'Believe what we say, not what you see.' What we see is cheating. If other companies can put a stop to it, why can't UBI? We know it would be a tough job. But they have to start somewhere if they want to have any credibility as a professional enterprise.

    Again - we will see if they deliver on their boasts. They said 'we're working on it'. Whatever they're cooking up, it had better be good.
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