Being able to hold revenge is stupid | Forums

[Velentix]

I get where op is coming from with the large hp% punishes. Honestly I think it would be fine to remove the knockdown effect from revenge activation. This removes the ground punish which is where you get those huge punishes from. You'd need to buff revenge in exchange though, maybe a longer active period? That said I would still keep the knockdown on throws, and have light parry level of stagger on activation.

[atac56]

this is one of the reasons why I do not play For Honor as much anymore. it's a team based game that discourages teamwork with how prevalent revenge is. many battles in dominion end with someone in revenge mode. there's no consistency in activation nor a limit to how many times a player can use it. at the very least it should be HP based, I don't think it should be building at all when a player still has over 50% of their health bar. once revenge is earned, there should be a time limit to activate. right now it's much faster and easier to kill a player in a 1v1 than it is a 4v1 which isn't the case for any other action game or fighting scenario in general.

and the 'git gud' argument doesn't hold any weight because For Honor doesn't show revenge meter for opposing players nor does it offer a tutorial on how to effectively gank for newer/casual players. Players shouldn't have to go to outside resources to figure out how to deal with an important mechanic.

[Chump94]

this is one of the reasons why I do not play For Honor as much anymore. it's a team based game that discourages teamwork with how prevalent revenge is. many battles in dominion end with someone in revenge mode. there's no consistency in activation nor a limit to how many times a player can use it. at the very least it should be HP based, I don't think it should be building at all when a player still has over 50% of their health bar. once revenge is earned, there should be a time limit to activate. right now it's much faster and easier to kill a player in a 1v1 than it is a 4v1 which isn't the case for any other action game or fighting scenario in general.

and the 'git gud' argument doesn't hold any weight because For Honor doesn't show revenge meter for opposing players nor does it offer a tutorial on how to effectively gank for newer/casual players. Players shouldn't have to go to outside resources to figure out how to deal with an important mechanic.

You are contradicting yourself a lot here, yes its a team based game so you should be working with your teammates in a gank not just throwing attacks for the fun of it and feeding revenge. In no way does revenge discourage teamwork, it encourages good teamwork. Most battles in dominion end with revenge because the winning side doesn't fear dying so they just throw their bodies against the last player. I'm also pretty sure it is HP based, my revenge shield on shinobi still gets 2 shotted.

[KevalOfHades]

Whats really iratating is revenge in a fair 4v4 fight where everyone is in the (same) zone fighting and your team for example is outplaying the enemy team by getting great team punishes,peelng for a teammate who is about to get punished and then suddenly one(or two) of enemy gets revenge!

Just because you happen to be attacking the same target breifly!

This should not be considered a gank as it is not ! All his teammates were present and failed to peel for him in need!

All this does is reward the team who turtles the most! Not to mention completely halts the fight and breaks flow!

The devs want to promote offense but have still left in team revenge hoarding which does the opposite and reward passive play!

[hihimetsisi]

My ideal revenge would be one that I can hold but pops auto if I'm at 5 hitpoints. I'd also like the pop revenge to pause when enemies run and reactivate when they are in a range.
Revenge needs a buff not a nerf. It's to easy to defend against revenge or run away or hit stun a max punish. And the overthrow a gb to a whiffed Max punish is annoying as well as hitting walls while your backed into a corner by a gank and unable to use your one sided zone.
If they were to delete revenge and make up and damage increase by 25% pre player lock-on I would accept that and would diminish OOL tech. Meaning if you had 100hp base against 2 people you would gain 25 points of health. 3, 150, 4, 200. So against 4 players youd have 200 HP and 30 heavy would do 60 damage. If the 4 had 100 base HP their total HP would be 400 so it would equate to a 2v4.
This would auto tune based on group fights with locks so OOL teching might cause a teammate to receive more damage from an attack from his opponent.
So in a 4v4 fight each Max health from target swapping would be 200 with 100 base.
This sounds bad and the initial fight might run long but remember that no one could get revenge.
This would also mean that enemies that check your health to see if that want to enter the fight to gank will auto give 25 points of health...this would benefit partied fight communication as you could warn off a teammate from entering a fight your winning.
A player could run around collecting HP by lockons like a shinobi could but this seems like a waste of time and dependent on the enemy team not knowing your strategy.

.
I like you're idea but only if revenge timer won't stop (pause) when enemies are running ( running is still a tactic).

[Knight_Raime]

I get where op is coming from with the large hp% punishes. Honestly I think it would be fine to remove the knockdown effect from revenge activation. This removes the ground punish which is where you get those huge punishes from. You'd need to buff revenge in exchange though, maybe a longer active period? That said I would still keep the knockdown on throws, and have light parry level of stagger on activation.

I don't really agree. If you're fighting 3 or 4 people during revenge you usually don't get to capitalize on a revenge knock down for a max punish unless you knock everyone down. I could see maybe making the auto parry frames shorter (currently 800ms,) but I don't think I agree with this change in general.

this is one of the reasons why I do not play For Honor as much anymore. it's a team based game that discourages teamwork with how prevalent revenge is. many battles in dominion end with someone in revenge mode. there's no consistency in activation nor a limit to how many times a player can use it. at the very least it should be HP based, I don't think it should be building at all when a player still has over 50% of their health bar. once revenge is earned, there should be a time limit to activate. right now it's much faster and easier to kill a player in a 1v1 than it is a 4v1 which isn't the case for any other action game or fighting scenario in general.

and the 'git gud' argument doesn't hold any weight because For Honor doesn't show revenge meter for opposing players nor does it offer a tutorial on how to effectively gank for newer/casual players. Players shouldn't have to go to outside resources to figure out how to deal with an important mechanic.

If you're doing proper team work you never have 3 or more people fighting one person outside specific scenarios. If you're doing proper team work then revenge never happens or is played around. Having nearly or a full team fighting one or two guys is not team work. A players HP bar already semi dictates how many activations you get. The higher HP pool you have you generally get more activations out of it due to not dying as quickly. Having it based on HP values would add inconsistency, not remove it. If your full team is struggling to take out a single individual it's entirely based on skill. Either that individual is leagues above your current team or your team collectively doesn't know what to do and is thus feeding the person continual revenge. Devs can make efforts to lessen/curb an individuals poor performance and behavior. But they cannot fix it for you.

As much as I agree FH is lacking due to not having a meter for people that 100% doesn't give you or anyone else a scapegoat for playing poorly. Everyone by now knows bashes feed tons of revenge over standard attacks. Everyone knows that you're immune to GB's and hitstun during your attacks while you have revenge activated. And everyone knows that you need two tags for revenge to build. Yet randoms will play like none of that information exists and hasn't been explained a zillion times over. You're also asking too much for a tutorial on ganking/team fighting. Fighting games don't teach you how to beat your opponent because not every opponent behaves the same. Personal experience is very much apart of growing as a player. Ganking/team fighting isn't some elaborate concept that requires a manual. It's literally just applied knowledge to the best of your ability in any given scenario.

You are contradicting yourself a lot here, yes its a team based game so you should be working with your teammates in a gank not just throwing attacks for the fun of it and feeding revenge. In no way does revenge discourage teamwork, it encourages good teamwork. Most battles in dominion end with revenge because the winning side doesn't fear dying so they just throw their bodies against the last player. I'm also pretty sure it is HP based, my revenge shield on shinobi still gets 2 shotted.

Everyone gets a 120HP revenge shield. The only thing a players HP has influence over is how much score you need to get revenge.

[Velentix]

I don't really agree. If you're fighting 3 or 4 people during revenge you usually don't get to capitalize on a revenge knock down for a max punish unless you knock everyone down. I could see maybe making the auto parry frames shorter (currently 800ms,) but I don't think I agree with this change in general.

Depends entirely on the situation. Against randoms who literally can't work together to save their lives, I've gotten full punishes off plenty of times. Against a team that knows what they are doing it doesn't matter if you get revenge or not, because 1v3-4 you are dead. At that point you're job is stalling, so I'd much rather take a decrease in potential damage if it meant I could stall for longer. I'm not saying just nerf it, it would have to be buffed as a result.

[Knight_Raime]

Depends entirely on the situation. Against randoms who literally can't work together to save their lives, I've gotten full punishes off plenty of times. Against a team that knows what they are doing it doesn't matter if you get revenge or not, because 1v3-4 you are dead. At that point you're job is stalling, so I'd much rather take a decrease in potential damage if it meant I could stall for longer. I'm not saying just nerf it, it would have to be buffed as a result.

Yeah I saw that and it's the proper mentality to have. I'm just saying at present I don't think revenge needs adjusting.
I find the majority of issues people usually present with it are born out of their own/ally improper play or from a lack of understanding.

The only pressing issue I perceive with revenge as of late is the fact that we do not have a visual indicator for people to know how much revenge someone currently has.
And speaking on a personal note too i'd love if said visual tell could also tell people how many tags an individual has.

[Qoissant]

Yeah I saw that and it's the proper mentality to have. I'm just saying at present I don't think revenge needs adjusting.
I find the majority of issues people usually present with it are born out of their own/ally improper play or from a lack of understanding.

The only pressing issue I perceive with revenge as of late is the fact that we do not have a visual indicator for people to know how much revenge someone currently has.
And speaking on a personal note too i'd love if said visual tell could also tell people how many tags an individual has.

They could add a bar below the stamina bar for revenge gain and add a box on the right or left of the entire status bar that says x1 and then goes up to x4 depending on how many tags they have