Historical revisionism in Assassin's Creed: Valhalla | Forums

[Greybush1982]

Think about it and i'll simplify it so you understand this time, if all we are is a collection of cells with no objective purpose, intrinsic value and objective meaning then tell me how slavery could be objectively wrong? You couldn't under such a world-view, you could claim it as wrong subjectively but tell me in terms of morality what has more weight, objective truth or subjective assertion?

1: That you don't have the mental capacity to make decisions, moral or otherwise, without a supposedly divine decree does not mean no one else has, Sparky.
Google "empathy", for a start.

2:
"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way."
Leviticus 25:44-46

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ."
Ephesians 6:5

"Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them."
1 Timothy 6:1-2

The Bible (you know.... the "word of God"..?) has several passages that support slavery, was used to justify slavery, and does not condemn slavery.
But please.... do tell us more about how morally superior Christianity is and how it freed all the slaves...

Ya numpty.

[Olympus2018]

Historical revisionism in Valhalla is nothing compared to what they did with Odyssey: Imagine my shock when I discovered that the ancient Greeks were ethnically Indians, Nigerians etc. They definitely didn't look like Greeks. I have met bounty hunters who look exactly like Ethiopians, Indians and other ethnicities from Asia and Africa. Most NPCs also look very different from modern or ancient Greeks, as depicted in ancient art. Whoever had this idea, got it all wrong. Thank Zeus we have mods to fix this type of historical revisionism.

[Darth Trethon]

Historical revisionism in Valhalla is nothing compared to what they did with Odyssey: Imagine my shock when I discovered that the ancient Greeks were ethnically Indians, Nigerians etc. They definitely didn't look like Greeks. I have met bounty hunters who look exactly like Ethiopians, Indians and other ethnicities from Asia and Africa. Most NPCs also look very different from modern or ancient Greeks, as depicted in ancient art. Whoever had this idea, got it all wrong. Thank Zeus we have mods to fix this type of historical revisionism.

These are ALL games that have absolutely NOTHING to do with history beyond anecdotal references and were never made to be historically accurate.

[paddy234]

1: That you don't have the mental capacity to make decisions, moral or otherwise, without a supposedly divine decree does not mean no one else has, Sparky.
Google "empathy", for a start.

2:
"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way."
Leviticus 25:44-46

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ."
Ephesians 6:5

"Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them."
1 Timothy 6:1-2

The Bible (you know.... the "word of God"..?) has several passages that support slavery, was used to justify slavery, and does not condemn slavery.
But please.... do tell us more about how morally superior Christianity is and how it freed all the slaves...

Ya numpty.

Hahahahah I suppose your a bible expert now Greybush??? A real intellectual, i can tell. You would get further if you could argue with your own words rather than copy and past texts out of context you obviously have no clue on.

Remember when i told another poster before that the greatest compliment you give someone who holding them to a higher standard than you hold yourself, that very much applies to you here. You see how is it that someone like yourself gets to talk about the evils of slavery and how perhaps Christians didn't do enough in the past to stop it sooner though they did stop it. What i mean is that how does someone who comes from the world-view that can't even determine that slavery is objectively a moral evil to moralize to a Christian when it's the Christian who can define it as objectively moral evil in the first place and it's precisely that world-view that determined it.The objective truth that we are created with equal intrinsic value and dignity and our understanding of this is inherently christian in the west. It was the dominant world-view that determined the political, economical and social structure of society right up until the 19th and mostly 20th century.

If a 21st century naturalist like yourself can't determine that slavery is objectively wrong and a 9th century Pope could based on the Christian world-view then isn't it obvious how it ended? It certainly wasn't due to materialistic atheism, a world-view spawned centuries ago yet only gained serious traction in the 20th century leading to the bloodiest century in human history through the dehumanization of man and it's social experiments. In a newly secular society where abortion exists even up to birth, euthanasia even for the healthy is condoned tell me Greybush what value does human life have today? How is it weighed and who decides this weight we impose upon it? Is it any wonder slavery today is bigger than ever? Giving a materialistic atheist the keys to civilization to shape it any way they please is like giving a child matches to do as they please

In the end there is only one truth to the Naturalist like yourself, life is absurd, what is slavery but one more aspect to the absurdity of life

[paddy234]

1: That you don't have the mental capacity to make decisions, moral or otherwise, without a supposedly divine decree does not mean no one else has, Sparky.
Google "empathy", for a start.

2:
"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way."
Leviticus 25:44-46

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ."
Ephesians 6:5

"Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them."
1 Timothy 6:1-2

The Bible (you know.... the "word of God"..?) has several passages that support slavery, was used to justify slavery, and does not condemn slavery.
But please.... do tell us more about how morally superior Christianity is and how it freed all the slaves...

Ya numpty.

You reminded me of this article i read with that comment.This very much applies to your way of thinking and it would hilarious if it wasn't so destructive


How To Destroy Western Civilization Without Spilling Your Latte
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By TOM GILSON & JOHN ZMIRAK Published on April 18, 2018 • 24 Comments

Tom Gilson & John Zmirak
Okay, you’re thoroughly sick of Western civilization. What you know of it, that is. Every standard you can’t live up to, every finger ever wagged at you, every twinge of inappropriate guilt — you trace it to Western Civ. Not the class in college — no one’s taking that anyway, or at least not without flipping it all on its head — but the real thing. The civilization. The one that’s sustained us, or we’ve sustained, or whatever, for hundreds and hundreds of years.

But now it’s getting in the way; you imagine that a “free” and “diverse” “global” civilization wouldn’t do such things to you. Nor would it enslave Africans, colonize Indians, or saddle sexual experimenters with fear of hellfire. Instead, it would be … mellow.

It would offer the best of every culture on the earth, with none of the ugly stuff. So hookah bars, but no honor-killings. Hindu yoga centers, but no Untouchables. Lots of porn, but no sexual harassment.

This new, post-Western world you associate with cities like Portland, Oregon, where you can’t afford to live. But you know from watching Portlandia that the place is really cool. You wish that Indianapolis or Buffalo, where you’re still stuck living, were just as cool.

There are some things about the West that you obviously value. Like modern medicine, political order, personal freedom, electronic devices, and openness to change. But you’re pretty sure those things would stick around, even after all the bad parts of Western Civ got taken away. You know, just the way all those foreign cultures will shed their negative aspects but keep all the fun, exotic stuff, once they have settled into Portland. Found a nice apartment, made some friends. Maybe joined an organic co-op.

Keep Western Civilization Secret
The worldview traced above isn’t a satire or a caricature. It is a documentary photograph of the thoughts of millions of Westerners. It’s virtually a brain scan. (Except that brain scans don’t register thoughts, but the person above vaguely thinks that they do. Or will, in a few years, anyway. “Trust science, man!”)

The only reason Western Civilization survived the fall of Rome was Christianity.

How would someone who thinks this way hollow out Western Civilization of all that offends him — without ruining his personal comfort? He could start by letting it die the death of invisibility. Just hide from the next generation what Western civilization even means.

Yes, it’s a heritage of ideas, values, and beliefs. They’re expressed through noble and worthwhile literature, visual arts, drama and music. Those ideas and this art constitute the basis for Western civilization. Without their substance and reality Western civilization cannot exist. But hey, kids don’t know that if you don’t tell them! So let’s just keep it secret. Let it freeze and starve in the dark.

This death by invisibility is now a fact, pretty much everywhere. Western Civilization is hidden from today’s students. The brilliant educator Rob Koons tried to get a course on Great Books established (reinstated, actually) at the University of Texas, Austin. After long effort he was forced to give up. The story at UT has been repeated at colleges and universities across the Western world. Sure some still teach art and architecture, but they teach them as empty shells, drained of the philosophy and theology that gave birth to them and give them meaning.

If you’re over 55 — or you watch old movies — you remember dire warnings of “the end of civilization as we know it.” Used to be that was about the Soviets dropping the Bomb on us, or Goldwater beating them to it. Scary stuff. Turned out it was easier than that: Just put an end to the knowledge of civilization. Expect the same effect in a generation or so, only less obvious, more comfortable, for now at least; no mushroom cloud required.

Teach People That It’s Evil
You could go a step beyond keeping Western Civilization secret. You could teach people just enough about it to prove that it’s uniquely evil. This process is well underway at colleges and universities that scorn “dead white men,” preferring “critical theory” instead. That’s the kind of theory that refuses to see good in any Western ideas, but only racism and sexism among the authors.

Get Rid of Jesus
The only reason Western Civilization survived the fall of Rome was Christianity. All that Classical philosophy and literature would have vanished forever if monks hadn’t thought it important enough to recopy the books by hand. And to do it over and over and over again as the paper decayed. Even the books that got preserved in Islamic countries mostly were recopied by Christian minorities there.

Take away the Christians, and the pagan tribes that overran the West would have used those old scrolls in the privy. Likewise, for most of Western history, thoughts of ethics and the common good have come to the masses through their churches.

Remake Christianity as a social club for nice people where lesbian clergy in Kente vestments lead folk songs and wave rainbow flags. That lasts one generation, tops, then you can take those nice, empty Gothic buildings and turn them into condos.

So if you want to shake the Etch-A-Sketch and start from scratch, you need to root out Christianity. At least, in its historic form, as a creed that teaches a long series of solid affirmations about historical facts and doctrinal truths. Try to make it instead a social club for nice people where lesbian clergy in Kente vestments lead folk songs and wave rainbow flags. That lasts one generation, tops, then you can take those nice, empty Gothic buildings and turn them into condos.

One great way to make this happen? Publicly humiliate and treat as thought criminals anyone who clings to the old Christian truths. Prevent them from working in public life. (See Mike Pompeo.) Boycott or ban their companies. (See Chick-Fil-A.) Just throw them in jail for being bigots. (See all those Christian florists and wedding planners.) Nobody wants to deal with that kind of trouble. Right?

Dig Up Some Other Basis for Morality
Savvy people will see that you can’t do without morality altogether. That might lead to racism. Or one of the other few things that people still admit fall under the category of “evil.” (Others include cruelty to animals, and “intolerance” of virtually any sexual behavior whatsoever.) So you need to offer them some kind of substitute. You know, like “Vegan Chicken” or gluten-free bread.

That’s where that (admittedly, 100% Western) thing called the “Enlightenment” comes in handy. Pretend (as the leaders of the Enlightenment such as Voltaire and Diderot actually did) that Europe lived in miserable “darkness” from 476 until, say, 1650. Then Descartes said, “Let there be light,” and lo, there was light.

None of this is remotely true, of course, but it’s handy that this is how history’s mostly taught already. Philosophy departments at Ivy League schools still skip from Plotinus to Descartes, leaving the murk in the middle for the muddle-heads in “Religious Studies.” Thankfully, some Christian schools (or at any rate, Jesuit ones) have begun to slavishly follow suit.

Pretend that pre-Christian values were higher and better. Skip lightly over all the slavery, genocide, misogyny, and the total neglect of the poor. (Christians opened the first schools, hospitals, soup kitchens, et cetera.) Such facts will just confuse kids. Teach them that Europe was one big fun, sexy Spring Break until those prune-faced apostles showed up to spoil the fun. You’ll be amazed how willing 18-year-olds are willing to believe it.

Please Support The Stream: Equipping Christians to Think Clearly About the Political, Economic and Moral Issues of Our Day.

Free People from the Family
Marx and Engels were post-Western enough to know that the traditional family was as big an obstacle as religion or private property to tearing down the civilization they hated. And replacing it with a brand new one, made from a brand new human nature. Luckily for you, the attack on the family and community is already well under way.

So get people to shack up instead of marrying. To divorce instead of sticking it out through rough patches. Blow up the load-bearing walls of marriage that mark it off from any other sexual connection. Let men marry each other, or women do the same. Then figure out ways to accommodate “throuples” and other polyamorous arrangements. Treat them as legal and moral equivalents of marriage. Punish anyone who doesn’t agree. With jail time, if possible!

Pretty soon there’s nothing left of the Western Civilization that was bothering you.

Don’t Have Any Kids
The “end of civilization as we know it”? It’s already happened.

Of course, it’s a big question whether you’ll still have all the side-effects of social order and moral behavior that make life anything other than nasty, brutish, and short. There is the real possibility that Portland can’t last more than a lifetime. Not without turning into something more like Baghdad or Sarajevo. That’s what those stuck-up, sourpuss conservatives are always warning us. They talk about “eating the seed corn” and “burning up social capital,” and you can’t prove that they’re wrong.

It might well happen that once you get rid of all the structural elements of Western Civilization, the amenities will crap out too. Maybe those foreign cultures that showed up will also turn out to have carried over some of their bad stuff. Maybe mobs of Muslim men will harass the cool young women you’d like to hang with. (They don’t dress “modestly.”) Maybe the next generation that grows up with vague, ungrounded moral codes will turn out a lot of criminals, extremists, or just plain bums.

The “end of civilization as we know it”? It’s already happened. But you can deal with the long-term side-effects. Let the universe die with you — and the civilization you’ve succeeded in killing off. Just don’t have any kids. Don’t leave behind any hostages to the world that you’ve created. You can boast about your decision, and shame those with large families. Just talk about “carbon footprints” and “biodiversity.” Then you can kick back and chill. Grab a pile of that seed corn, and pop it in the microwave. Here’s some organic asiago cheese we picked up at Whole Foods.

[paddy234]

These are ALL games that have absolutely NOTHING to do with history beyond anecdotal references and were never made to be historically accurate.

I do think previous Assassins' Creed games wanted to be taken a bit more seriously but it all felt too pretentious to me and i like the new direction the franchise has decided to go in. Assassin's Creed now is essentially a cartoon, this is even evident with it's change in artstyle. It's a fun game set in the most unrealistic and cartoonish interpretation of the historical periods it's set in. This i believe is done to avoid offending anyone. It definitely works

[Greybush1982]

Hahahahah I suppose your a bible expert now Greybush??? A real intellectual, i can tell.

Compared to you, I'm a celebrated scholar on the subject, yeah.
You can spew out as much dribble and bs as your (admittedly limited) imagination can conjure up, and pull as many assumptions about what my beliefs are out of your arse as you want. It's still just a desperate (and obvious!) attempt to deflect, and it still doesn't change facts, no matter how much you wish it did.

You would get further if you could argue with your own words rather than copy and past texts out of context you obviously have no clue on.

...he said, right before copy+paste'ing an entire article...


Now, as much as I do enjoy a battle of wits, fighting against an unarmed opponent gets pretty tedious.
So enjoy your sad delusions, Sparky.

[GameGuru2018]

That's not a real Mark Twain quote. It's never been sourced and it's one of the many fake quotations and proverbs that float around the internet.
.

May be he didn't put it directly that way. But essence is the same. Quote is very smart, very insightful. Depicts the situation very good. Worth Mark Twain.






The same with this quote......

[paddy234]

Compared to you, I'm a celebrated scholar on the subject, yeah.
You can spew out as much dribble and bs as your (admittedly limited) imagination can conjure up, and pull as many assumptions about what my beliefs are out of your arse as you want. It's still just a desperate (and obvious!) attempt to deflect, and it still doesn't change facts, no matter how much you wish it did.



...he said, right before copy+paste'ing an entire article...


Now, as much as I do enjoy a battle of wits, fighting against an unarmed opponent gets pretty tedious.
So enjoy your sad delusions, Sparky.

Hahahaha brilliant, and here is me thinking that other poster was bad enough lol. Anyway back to talking about video games

[GameGuru2018]

So I came across this post made by a Ubisoft fan.

Just because the sources only comes from one side doesn't mean they where wrong, this myth that most of history can't be trusted because it is written by the victors or Christians or whoever they blame is used by marxists, nazis and other extreme ideologies to justify their world-view and actions. It doesn't matter if someone who was "educated" in a place of "higher learning" or Joe from the hot dog stand says it or not, historical revisionism is always wrong.
Ubisoft's argument is basically: "because we only know the Christian version of this conflict it must be wrong".

Let me tell you an anecdote; imagine someone has committed a crime and we are in court, the vikings are accused of the crime of invading England and committing numerous amount of war-crimes. The English have as proof several well written accounts of what happened in the war, "witnesses" and "DNA evidence". The Vikings are known to the "police", "character witnesses" show them as ruthless killers, their "social media" is filled with evidence and they do not deny the charges. The "judge" (thousands of years of historians) proclaims the Vikings guilty on all charges and nobody protests the decision.
THOUSANDS of years later here comes the "expert" on the matter of all things, the "enlightened" Judge(the "historians" backing you up). This Judge is so much more intelligent than the other judges you see because he isn't brainwashed by dogma, no sir! This guy has spent all of his life studying at Yale or Harvard or some other prestigious institution. You see he knows that Christians are always the bad guys since they unlike him are brainwashed by the evil horrible dogma that is the bible, his teachers told him so you see. He knows that all matters of religion is just made up by the ruling class to keep the people oppressed and in fact the only truth is in the institutions controlled by his kinds of enlightened people.
So when he came across this old ruling he was simply dumbfounded, "are you telling me a Christian is on the good side of history here, this cannot be allowed!" so he looked and he looked for a reason to disqualify this old evil Christian judge's decision. Finally he finds a loophole! Since technically the Vikings never wrote down any accounts of their own how could we possibly know their side of the story, even though none of them denied the allegations against them and even though the evidence against them where overwhelming "technically" they never admitted to it! "Haha" said the Judge now let's make a game out of this!

Do you see the hypocrisy here?

Why is that, it seems there is an acceptance among western game-companies of anti-christian sentiment, imagine if a game franchise was based around the fact that the "Jews" where behind every evil regime in history. It would be outrageous but somehow replacing "Jews" with Christians in the form of "Templars" makes it alright? I don't think so. And no the Templars aren't "technically" Christians if you dig into the deep dark lore of the games but let's not pretend that the majority of people playing won't do that and let's not pretend the Templars aren't always on the side of Christians because they are aside from Origins and Odyssey.


That was the most ridiculous part of the trailer and a perfect example of the historical revisionism in this game.

I will still buy the game and I liked the trailer because even if the Christians are the "bad guys" it still has Christians in it so I gotta play, but either stop pretending you as a company aren't consistently anti-christian or a thousand times better yet stop being anti-christian, maybe make a game where you are on the side of the Christians for once. But don't take this as a "stop using Christians in AC" because either way I'm fine with it and will keep playing. (Matthew 5:10 "“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.")

Matthew 6:24 "“No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money."

Also if you can play as a Christian viking (They did convert to Christianity, unless you got another "patch" for history lol) then ignore all of this.

God bless!

It was said very good.

He said it with pain in his heart. Even like a poet.

It is the sigh.....

The Heart...... of a heartless world.

The Soul ..... of soulles condition.

OPIUM.

He didn't say - poison. Venom or toxin.

He used the word - opium. Something that makes you fall asleep. Something that doesn't let you wake up.