Historical revisionism in Assassin's Creed: Valhalla | Forums

[Greybush1982]

Even the most hardcore of atheists subscribe to this Christian presupposition as leading to great progress in the west such as equality, human rights, justice etc.

Ehhhhhh no.
You don't have to be a "hardcore atheist" (whatever that is) to realize the blindingly obvious fact that the Christian Church changed and modified it's views based on popular consensus at least as much as the other way around.
What you're suggesting is that the church only reluctantly accepted things and just figured they'd wait until everyone was ready to agree to change their views, when in reality the ethics and morals espoused by the church were already present in many cultures and societies before Christianity, and the church changing to fit society better was (and still is) more common than the other way around.

[VestigialLlama4]

Ehhhhhh no.
You don't have to be a "hardcore atheist" (whatever that is) to realize the blindingly obvious fact that the Christian Church changed and modified it's views based on popular consensus at least as much as the other way around.
What you're suggesting is that the church only reluctantly accepted things and just figured they'd wait until everyone was ready to agree to change their views, when in reality the ethics and morals espoused by the church were already present in many cultures and societies before Christianity, and the church changing to fit society better was (and still is) more common than the other way around.

I suggest you don't waste time. This person clearly doesn't understand history as a science. The fact that historians these days think in terms of contingency and agency and not inevitability, reassess and challenge pre-established judgments and definitions, precisely so they don't end up parroting and repeating the national, class, and religious values of the reigning hegemony, which as is all too common, is often used to justify and propagate further atrocities.

[GameGuru2018]

paddy234, you've wrote a great deal of nonsense here.


I should say you directly, for you to understand - you're BRAINWASHED.

To be brainwashed doesn't mean to be stupid or silly.
Every person can be brainwashed and brainwashed easily. Like a child!
This is a feature of human being - he(she) can be brainwahsed without problems.

Animals can't be brainwashed.
Animal, for example, will never drink its urine. But human.........say him that it's useful for health and he will.


You should understand the essence. First of all. The core!

CAPITALISM WILL ALWAYS BRAINWASH PEOPLE AGAINST COMMUNISM! ALWAYS!

For capitalism communism means death. Next formation that will replace it. The most educated capitalists know it very well.
First marxists were capitalists.
Capitalism and Communism is like darkness and light, water and fire - they can't coexist. Capitalism will always undermine Communism.

CIA - was formed in 1947 with the main goal - to unermine Soviet Union. Trillions and trillions of dollars have been spent on that.
Its senior officials themselves said it after.
Everything that could somehow undermine USSR was used. Ouside the country and inside the country. Finanсial -military - ideological.

Anyone who could somehow show Soviet Union in a negaitive light was welcomed in the West. Very warmly welcomed.
If you're pouring dirt on communism - you're hero.
If you're pouring dirt - Noble Prize for you! Universal acceptance.

That's how it was.


Many people don't unserstand even the meaning of the word - gulag. But repeat it so deliciously.....so tastefully.

Gulag is a synonym of american CWA. Civil Work Administration. Roads, bridges, canals.....building.
In the USA, from 1933 to 1939 - 3,3 mln. people were there.

8,5 mln. people passed through american Gulag. And that doesn't even count prisoners!

In Soviet Union, from 1921 to 1953 - 2,6 mln. passed through soviet gulag. With prisoners! Criminals, murderers, thieves, rapists....and so on.

Numbers speak for themselves.


For Soviet Union, pre-WW2 times - were the hardest times. After Civil War the country was full of criminals, and just open enemis of the state. WW2 was ahead.
Country was in ruins. Agricultural country, with the population where 80% were peasants. Proletariat was only about 3%!

How to fight against super-industrial west?!!! How to resist capitalism?!!!

Industrialization, collectivization - was a matter of Life or Death.

From 1922 to 1941 the greatest breakthough was made! May be the greatest in the History.

That socialistic breakthrough let the Soviet Union to finish the war in Berlin. To be the first in Space. To become a Superpower! With a nuclear bomb.
With its wonderful science and culture.

From 1922 to 1945, in twenty years, the greatest progress was realized. Phenominal breakthrough.

One of the main role was played, of course, by Stalin.
He was in charge.

When he died......people around couldn't find even one good suit in his wardrobe. He had nothing!
Only that old suit he was wearing.

And people remember that.

That's why today in Russia, among the majority of people - he is absolute Hero.
No one can come close. Lenin and Stalin.


Once Stalin said - " I know, after my death there will be a lot of trash and garbage on my grave but the wind of the history will mercilessly blow it away."

He said also - "Our affairs will be perverted and spat upon. First of all abroad and in our country as well. Many crimes will be attributed to me. Capitalism will take cruel revenge for our former succes. My name will be slandered as well. Dark times will come. Hard times.......But later.......The time will pass........ all their lies will come out. And our descendants, remebering of our socialist victories, remembering of our noble causes, will raise the fallen red banner. They will proudly carry it forward for the new victories and achivements."

So, we shall see.....


I'm not a stalinist or anti-stalinist, neo-pagan, pagan or odinist. I'm just trying to be a Realist.

I was myself under the strongest anti-communist propaganda and brainwashing. Day and night, day and night - "Stalin killed 50 mln!" "Stalin killed 100 mln!"
Why the country was flourishing and population grew so rapidly, no one propagandizing day and night, of course.

Now, everything that interests me is The Truth.


This is similar to the situation with the vikings.

Now they're in dirt. In thousand years dirt.
They are nothing but barbarians civilised by noble europeans.

Even in vikings series .....They're like bunch of dirty hobos.

All those mass sacrifice scenes.....Unproven!

Just one such scene in AC Valhalla...and it will be very clear - who is bad and who is good.

[Greybush1982]

I suggest you don't waste time. This person clearly doesn't understand history as a science. The fact that historians these days think in terms of contingency and agency and not inevitability, reassess and challenge pre-established judgments and definitions, precisely so they don't end up parroting and repeating the national, class, and religious values of the reigning hegemony, which as is all too common, is often used to justify and propagate further atrocities.

Yeah, he's made that painfully clear.
I just wanted to point out that part, because it's something I keep hearing from certain groups and segments every now and then.


Though I have enjoyed a lot of the details you've mentioned.

[paddy234]

I suggest you don't waste time. This person clearly doesn't understand history as a science. The fact that historians these days think in terms of contingency and agency and not inevitability, reassess and challenge pre-established judgments and definitions, precisely so they don't end up parroting and repeating the national, class, and religious values of the reigning hegemony, which as is all too common, is often used to justify and propagate further atrocities.

This is from a man who tried to justify, Joseph Stalin's extermination of tens of thousands of people and enslavement of many more by stating that he balanced it out later. So embarrassed by this you resorted to insults to back away from digging yourself a bigger hole. Stop talking about history as a science you understand. Half of your sentences were copied and pasted from Wikipedia, a fact i discovered when i was looking for the names of Pope's on papal bulls on Slavery. You copied and pasted sentences and give a half arsed description to events to suit your agenda, this didn't bother you until you went too far by trying to twist history as far as making Joseph Stalin a saint. I didn't want to embarrass you by calling you out on this but since your the once talking about history as a Science you understand it's clear you need to be put down a peg. Neither of us are historians

Earlier you stated Catholicism was the equivalent of Fascism and put up ridiculous photos to try and prove yourself. Once i rubbished your view you backed off to saying it wasn't a great evil and that there was good and bad in it's history. You don't know what you believe. The fact that you take a game like Assassins creed historically seriously anyway tells me everything i need to know about you. I bet you think it's deep and realistic

[paddy234]

paddy234, you've wrote a great deal of nonsense here.


I should say you directly, for you to understand - you're BRAINWASHED.

To be brainwashed doesn't mean to be stupid or silly.
Every person can be brainwashed and brainwashed easily. Like a child!
This is a feature of human being - he(she) can be brainwahsed without problems.

Animals can't be brainwashed.
Animal, for example, will never drink its urine. But human.........say him that it's useful for health and he will.


You should understand the essence. First of all. The core!

CAPITALISM WILL ALWAYS BRAINWASH PEOPLE AGAINST COMMUNISM! ALWAYS!

For capitalism communism means death. Next formation that will replace it. The most educated capitalists know it very well.
First marxists were capitalists.
Capitalism and Communism is like darkness and light, water and fire - they can't coexist. Capitalism will always undermine Communism.

CIA - was formed in 1947 with the main goal - to unermine Soviet Union. Trillions and trillions of dollars have been spent on that.
Its senior officials themselves said it after.
Everything that could somehow undermine USSR was used. Ouside the country and inside the country. Finanсial -military - ideological.

Anyone who could somehow show Soviet Union in a negaitive light was welcomed in the West. Very warmly welcomed.
If you're pouring dirt on communism - you're hero.
If you're pouring dirt - Noble Prize for you! Universal acceptance.

That's how it was.


Many people don't unserstand even the meaning of the word - gulag. But repeat it so deliciously.....so tastefully.

Gulag is a synonym of american CWA. Civil Work Administration. Roads, bridges, canals.....building.
In the USA, from 1933 to 1939 - 3,3 mln. people were there.

8,5 mln. people passed through american Gulag. And that doesn't even count prisoners!

In Soviet Union, from 1921 to 1953 - 2,6 mln. passed through soviet gulag. With prisoners! Criminals, murderers, thieves, rapists....and so on.

Numbers speak for themselves.


For Soviet Union, pre-WW2 times - were the hardest times. After Civil War the country was full of criminals, and just open enemis of the state. WW2 was ahead.
Country was in ruins. Agricultural country, with the population where 80% were peasants. Proletariat was only about 3%!

How to fight against super-industrial west?!!! How to resist capitalism?!!!

Industrialization, collectivization - was a matter of Life or Death.

From 1922 to 1941 the greatest breakthough was made! May be the greatest in the History.

That socialistic breakthrough let the Soviet Union to finish the war in Berlin. To be the first in Space. To become a Superpower! With a nuclear bomb.
With its wonderful science and culture.

From 1922 to 1945, in twenty years, the greatest progress was realized. Phenominal breakthrough.

One of the main role was played, of course, by Stalin.
He was in charge.

When he died......people around couldn't find even one good suit in his wardrobe. He had nothing!
Only that old suit he was wearing.

And people remember that.

That's why today in Russia, among the majority of people - he is absolute Hero.
No one can come close. Lenin and Stalin.


Once Stalin said - " I know, after my death there will be a lot of trash and garbage on my grave but the wind of the history will mercilessly blow it away."

He said also - "Our affairs will be perverted and spat upon. First of all abroad and in our country as well. Many crimes will be attributed to me. Capitalism will take cruel revenge for our former succes. My name will be slandered as well. Dark times will come. Hard times.......But later.......The time will pass........ all their lies will come out. And our descendants, remebering of our socialist victories, remembering of our noble causes, will raise the fallen red banner. They will proudly carry it forward for the new victories and achivements."

So, we shall see.....


I'm not a stalinist or anti-stalinist, neo-pagan, pagan or odinist. I'm just trying to be a Realist.

I was myself under the strongest anti-communist propaganda and brainwashing. Day and night, day and night - "Stalin killed 50 mln!" "Stalin killed 100 mln!"
Why the country was flourishing and population grew so rapidly, no one propagandizing day and night, of course.

Now, everything that interests me is The Truth.


This is similar to the situation with the vikings.

Now they're in dirt. In thousand years dirt.
They are nothing but barbarians civilised by noble europeans.

Even in vikings series .....They're like bunch of dirty hobos.

All those mass sacrifice scenes.....Unproven!

Just one such scene in AC Valhalla...and it will be very clear - who is bad and who is good.

Your not a realist, thats the thing. Your on the same page as Alex Jone or David Icke and the holocaust deniers with their own interpretation of history claiming everyone else is brainwashed just because we don't subscribe to your view. The problem with defending Stalin is that you don't have to just be a yank or influenced by yanks to know what he done in history. It's clear to see. Millions who were sent to the Gulags were those classed as dissidents and counter revolutionaries. I'm not going to get into this, there is little to no consensus that would defend the Soviet Union's history and Stalin for that matter. Thank God it's gone, there was a good reason for that, it failed like most atheistic experiments in the 20th century

[VestigialLlama4]

That's not a real Mark Twain quote. It's never been sourced and it's one of the many fake quotations and proverbs that float around the internet.

Earlier you stated Catholicism was the equivalent of Fascism...

This is a total boldfaced lie. I demand you show me the quote and the post where I have said this.

[paddy234]

Ehhhhhh no.
You don't have to be a "hardcore atheist" (whatever that is) to realize the blindingly obvious fact that the Christian Church changed and modified it's views based on popular consensus at least as much as the other way around.
What you're suggesting is that the church only reluctantly accepted things and just figured they'd wait until everyone was ready to agree to change their views, when in reality the ethics and morals espoused by the church were already present in many cultures and societies before Christianity, and the church changing to fit society better was (and still is) more common than the other way around.

Rubbish. The fact that Popes through papal bulls and decrees had determined slavery to be a moral evil in the early middle ages among Christians is clear to see. I give many evidence of this. Vestigial seen this and simply scoffed at it as saying oh well Christian nations didn't listen to the Popes on this, i never claimed they did but see how he danced around this issue by changing the goal posts. You can pretend to be as thick as him or you can debate what i actually said.

I'll repeat it again. The world-view that led to the abolishment of slavery was one that determined that all men we created equally with intrinsic value and dignity. It was incompatible with this world-view, while it had tried through the attempts of many through coercion and even in public debate it could no longer be justified. It had nothing to do with slave rebellions which did nothing to change peoples philosophical outlook on man's place in the world and his origins.

Think about it and i'll simplify it so you understand this time, if all we are is a collection of cells with no objective purpose, intrinsic value and objective meaning then tell me how slavery could be objectively wrong? You couldn't under such a world-view, you could claim it as wrong subjectively but tell me in terms of morality what has more weight, objective truth or subjective assertion? As a subjective assertion theres no way Slavery would have been abolished. It was classed as a moral evil because it contradicted ACCEPTED objective truths about the origin of man. This unfortunately was gradual and the process and our gradual shift won't ever stop. Society moves bit by bit in the direction it is pointing whether it be through Christian truth or secular truth

An example of this being what was morally evil many years ago such as abortion and euthanasia under a Christian world-view has now become morally acceptable under secular world-views. A person's world-view is EVERYTHING, it shapes all what they think and do and therefore society itself

[paddy234]

That's not a real Mark Twain quote. It's never been sourced and it's one of the many fake quotations and proverbs that float around the internet.



This is a total boldfaced lie. I demand you show me the quote and the post where I have said this.

Sorry, it was actually by game guru in a post attempting to show the Catholic Church in league with Nazism. I assumed it was you based on both of your posts defending identical viewpoints with the same level of historical inaccuracy

[RHYLASS]

There is no science to or in moral.

The Norse, rather dying bloody than old and our moral concepts of opportunity today, show the none compatibility. Contingency and determinism in evolution? Which is it now in Ethic?

One can argue Philosophy may come close, jet it lacks the numbers/repeatability/verifiability "scientists" are so fond of.