Historical revisionism in Assassin's Creed: Valhalla | Forums

[Teen_Tyrant]

The entire point of this series, other than letting people climb up any walls they want and letting them stab people with a knife that slides out of their sleeve, is to say "What if both religion and evolution were right and wrong at the same time? Like, we got some of it right, but not in the way we think, and other parts wrong, but not in the way we think?"

You see that all over with the concept of the Isu. All gods, including He of the Judeo-Christian religions, are real, but not actually gods. Humans did come from apes, but not through the normal course of evolution. The Bible was right about two humans named Adam and Eve stealing an Apple when they were not supposed to and being cast out of a place called Eden, but it wasn't in the way the Bible teaches us. Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Norse, and presumably other belief systems around the world, were true in the fact that these entities existed and created humans, but they were not supernatural deities.

Assassin's Creed addresses ALL belief systems. Even Atheism takes a hit. Christians and Jews and Muslims and Buddhists and everyone else are all partly wrong and partly right and are all greedy and guilty of screwing over some other group at some point in their history. It's a big What If for this series, and part of what makes it fun, because it allows us to envision a world where nobody is right, but nobody is completely wrong. And at the end of the day, if the truly religious and faithful are bothered by even the non-serious suggestion of a world without their God(s), there is still this little thing you can fall back on to soothe that concern when playing this game: If the Isu made humanity, then Who made them?

Now get over it and go stab someone (in the game, you edgy twits!).

[Megas_Doux]

From which year did t his thread come from?

903 AD lol

[LDS_Darth_Revan]

The entire point of this series, other than letting people climb up any walls they want and letting them stab people with a knife that slides out of their sleeve, is to say "What if both religion and evolution were right and wrong at the same time? Like, we got some of it right, but not in the way we think, and other parts wrong, but not in the way we think?"

You see that all over with the concept of the Isu. All gods, including He of the Judeo-Christian religions, are real, but not actually gods. Humans did come from apes, but not through the normal course of evolution. The Bible was right about two humans named Adam and Eve stealing an Apple when they were not supposed to and being cast out of a place called Eden, but it wasn't in the way the Bible teaches us. Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Norse, and presumably other belief systems around the world, were true in the fact that these entities existed and created humans, but they were not supernatural deities.

Assassin's Creed addresses ALL belief systems. Even Atheism takes a hit. Christians and Jews and Muslims and Buddhists and everyone else are all partly wrong and partly right and are all greedy and guilty of screwing over some other group at some point in their history. It's a big What If for this series, and part of what makes it fun, because it allows us to envision a world where nobody is right, but nobody is completely wrong. And at the end of the day, if the truly religious and faithful are bothered by even the non-serious suggestion of a world without their God(s), there is still this little thing you can fall back on to soothe that concern when playing this game: If the Isu made humanity, then Who made them?

Now get over it and go stab someone (in the game, you edgy twits!).

It’s also not like they are saying everything is wrong. For example throughout the series even characters in the know still talk about things like the afterlife. It’s just as you said some things were wrong and some things were right.

[Tundra 793]

Your god needs a hammer, my God uses only his hands.
Which got holes in them so yeah.

What good are your hands, when they’re nailed to a cross?

(I totally have something relevant and interesting to add to the discussion after dinner, but i really just couldn’t resist an easy jab like that. God forgives, yes?)

[VestigialLlama4]

My main issue with Vikings is that they r*ped and murdered innocent Christians to bring on the apocalypse.

1) Firstly Viking Conquests were driven by economic and social motivations and not religious. The Vikings were warriors and invader of a different belief system but it's inaccurate to see their activities as being religious. Most Vikings were religious but their actions weren't an extension of their beliefs. (With the exception of the Jomsvikings were explicitly a religious order composed of men who became soldier monks of Thor and Odin).

2) To the extent that we understand the Norse beliefs as having a theology, "Bringing on the apocalypse" is not its tenet. It's the opposite of that, delaying, avoiding, and escaping the inevitability of Ragnarokkr.

3) The Vikings attacked everyone and didn't focus on Christians specifically. They attacked Picts and Celts who were pagan holdouts still left in the UK and Ireland, they attacked Slavic Pagans in Eastern Europe, and the fought among each other. They raided Arab settlements in Spain and Sicily, and so on.

So you are wrong on all three.

"If you can play as a Christian" means to not pillage villages or kill innocent people and to have your character believe in Jesus.

Well, then you shouldn't be playing any AC game then. These are violent action-adventure titles.

[AnimusLover]

I was with the OP at first regarding the sympathetic take on vikings being a bit stupid but once the ohmygodforeveramenjesusmary talk started I checked out.

[GameGuru2018]

1) Firstly Viking Conquests were driven by economic and social motivations and not religious.....

..... The Vikings attacked everyone and didn't focus on Christians specifically.

Wrong! Again you repeat it! Can't believe you can't undestand it....

The essence of any war is money. Resources. Even today.
While there is money there will be wars.

But!

Someone advances - someone defends.

In Vikings case - they were defending.

The Truth was on their side.

They were defending against advancing christianisation and its political influence.
Conficts before were typical for the times, people were always fighting with each other.

But war against christianity was a different story!

For them it was a sacred war. War for the faith of their fathers.
Christianisation was advancing on all sides, it was advancing very aggressively. Terroristically. Only pagans of the time knows what they had to go through.

Yes, it's so true - the history is written by the victors.
In our case, its written by christians.

Not to understand this - is not to understand vikings at all.

[Tundra 793]

Wrong! Again you repeat it! Can't believe you can't undestand it....

They were defending against advancing christianisation and its political influence.
Conficts before were typical for the times, people were always fighting with each other.

But war against christianity was a different story!

For them it was a sacred war. War for the faith of their fathers.
Christianisation was advancing on all sides, it was advancing very aggressively. Terroristically. Only pagans of the time knows what they had to go through.

Yes, it's so true - the history is written by the victors.
In our case, its written by christians.

Not to understand this - is not to understand vikings at all.

What’s your sources for that theory?

It doesn’t really match up with the prevailing theories that I’ve read; Specifically, this was rarely if at all about religion. By the mid to late 800s many Vikings had even begun incorporating Christian symbols into their attire and weapons.
When Vikings eventually also became Christian, there’s really no evidence that they did so by coercion or force. They were never invaded or fought large scale battles specifically against the Holy Roman Empire.

If this was a religious war, why didn’t they fight against the body of Christianity itself?

[Teen_Tyrant]

Not to understand this - is not to understand vikings at all.

Nobody cares. We are wanting this game in order to play as the Vikings, not understand them. Their story, ultimately, is no different than any other throughout history: a culture that existed and then didn’t anymore because someone else replaced them by either wiping them out directly, or moving into the neighborhood and mingling with them until they were an all new people. That was happening long before Christianity came about, it will continue to happen long after religion has been abandoned globally, because that’s what humans do. We don’t need to understand what happened to the Vikings and why, because in every way that matters, we’ve seen it before, and ultimately, there’s so little direct info that we can’t ever really know for sure, so nobody cares. The Christians won and what they wrote about the Vikings may or may not be accurate. The Vikings can feel free to file a complaint with the international court of historical accuracy if they have a problem with it.

[Tundra 793]

Nobody cares. We are wanting this game in order to play as the Vikings, not understand them. Their story, ultimately, is no different than any other throughout history: a culture that existed and then didn’t anymore because someone else replaced them by either wiping them out directly, or moving into the neighborhood and mingling with them until they were an all new people. That was happening long before Christianity came about, it will continue to happen long after religion has been abandoned globally, because that’s what humans do. We don’t need to understand what happened to the Vikings and why, because in every way that matters, we’ve seen it before, and ultimately, there’s so little direct info that we can’t ever really know for sure, so nobody cares. The Christians won and what they wrote about the Vikings may or may not be accurate. The Vikings can feel free to file a complaint with the international court of historical accuracy if they have a problem with it.

Two things;

First; You might not need to understand them, maybe no one does, but some people actually just want to. If you’re not one of them, no need to get involved, but some actually enjoy these discussions.

Second; That thing you mention about why their culture existed and then didn’t? That’s not how it happened for the Vikings. They weren’t displaced, conquered or mingled. They just chose peace over war.