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  1. #1
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Can someone explain, with detail, how the directive "Special Ammo" works?

    I've been trying a new approach to the game, starting back at normal difficulty and playing with all 5 directives on. Think of it as a sort of training exercise.

    One of the things I've learned so far about playing this way is that the directive "Special Ammo" has some very strange behavior that I can't explain just by observation. And I'm hoping the community can provide some insight. So, here's what I've seen:

    Each enemy faction uses its own special ammo. Black Tusk uses shock, True Sons use bleed, Outcasts and cleaners use fire, etc, etc. Interestingly, some special ammo will hit a crusader shield(and probably all shields) and not have any effect, which other types of bullets instantly apply their effects. Some of this can be explained by the nature of the crusader shield not being a 100% cover, and so shots would occasionally get through. But this doesn't explain when special ammo shots ARE hitting the shield(pok pok pok sound) and no status effect gets through. Generally speaking, I've noticed that shock ammo from Black Tusks ignore the existence of the shield and apply the effect directly, while fire and bleed rounds sometimes get blocked.

    The other thing I've noticed is about how and when enemies get special ammo. Each encounter of squad of enemies will usually have one person that starts with special ammo. But as you start killing your way through them, it appears that the special ammo status gets handed off somehow. I've been in the middle of shooting an enemy, and halfway through his armor bar the special ammo icon will appear above his head and start taking effect on me(if he hits, of course).

    What I don't understand is how or why this happens. If it was some kind of support station that I saw them run to, or could shoot to deny them, ok. But it appears to just randomly jump from one enemy to another when the initial NPC that has it gets killed. This doesn't seem very fair, and really takes away a lot of the strategy of how you start fights. It's also unfair in that you might be prioritizing a medic, for example, when suddenly a random enemy on your flank just magically gets special ammo and starts CCing you.

    Anyway, if someone can explain what's going on so I can make better plans for this directive, or if the Devs themselves can add some insight, that'd be awsome! I'm hoping that the mechanics and workings of the "Special Ammo" directive isn't just buggy, but at this point I don't know enough to make that determination.
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  2. #2
    UplayKap27's Avatar Member
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    The one enemy NPC that starts with the special ammo will put down an ammo box on the ground at some point.
    Other NPC's will then go to that box and pick up the special ammo.
    You can destroy the ammo box if you can locate it (and it will drop the special ammo type for you to use).

    Leaving the box on the ground can often be advantageous as it create a great target spot as the enemy NPC's all try to go there and get some ammo.

    Kap.
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  3. #3
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by UplayKap27 Go to original post
    The one enemy NPC that starts with the special ammo will put down an ammo box on the ground at some point.
    Other NPC's will then go to that box and pick up the special ammo.
    You can destroy the ammo box if you can locate it (and it will drop the special ammo type for you to use).

    Leaving the box on the ground can often be advantageous as it create a great target spot as the enemy NPC's all try to go there and get some ammo.

    Kap.
    I have never once ever seen an NPC place a box of any type other than the medic healing station. I haven't seen enemy NPCs run to a box and do an animation or anything of the sort to collect the special ammo. Nor does this explain how an enemy who does not have special ammo can be in mid-run from one place to another, or in the process of shooting at me, and halfway through get special ammo.

    I don't doubt that there are NPCs that do have the ability you described. But if so they're either dropping it off-screen long before I ever enter the room or area, and other NPCs can get special ammo simply by walking near it. And if they are getting special ammo just by walking close, then it stands to reason that I would have seen the ammo box by now. Either way, this seems like a poor implementation of the directive.

    I appreciate the answer, and I'll keep an eye out for what you described. But that doesn't sound anything like what I've been seeing.
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  4. #4
    Only that one Outcast NPC drop a box for special ammo, I didn't play with special ammo directive much but from the time that I did play it I have never seen any NPC with special ammo drop a box. It will just be that one NPC with special icon on his head that have special ammo, I am not sure if the special ammo buff gets transferred though.
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  5. #5
    IgotNerfed's Avatar Senior Member
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    I think how it works is that there will always be at least one NPC with special ammo and if he/she gets killed it's randomly generated to pass it over to another NPC to keep the directive working.

    Fog of war is always working non stop once it's switched on
    Ammo hoarders is always working non stop once it's switched on
    Skill Cooldowns is always working non stop once it's switched on.

    so, I guess the only way they could make the special ammo directive permanently on is to pass the ammo around to keep it alive. No point in putting a box down because once it gets destroyed the directive isn't working anymore. Same reason stands if you killed an NPC who was using special ammo and no other NPC could use it the directive wouldn't be working.

    This is just my opinion, I could be way off and totally wrong, lol.
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  6. #6
    the special ammo directive randomly give a special ammo to enemy NPCs, and you have to deal with it during fights. It's pretty fun to play with this directive, unless you get gang banged by Black Tusk and more than one Black Tusk has the shock special ammo or it gives it to a Black Tusk tank or dog.
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  7. #7
    F.i.x.e.r's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by ginto76 Go to original post
    the special ammo directive randomly give a special ammo to enemy NPCs, and you have to deal with it during fights. It's pretty fun to play with this directive, unless you get gang banged by Black Tusk and more than one Black Tusk has the shock special ammo or it gives it to a Black Tusk tank or dog.
    Really nasty when doing invaded Arena.
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  8. #8
    zigMAGNA's Avatar Senior Member
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    it's terrible for shield users.. doesn't matter which shield you use..
    the special ammo will go right through the shield and affect the agent...

    i used to play with it on in my early SHD levels farming... but later decided the challenge it offers is not worth the 25% xp for me.
    It's great for every other type of build bc you can CC them.. you can DPS gun them down.. since red builds are already usually squishy and have high dmg output to kill special ammo enemies quick.

    But for bulwark shield user with a pistol.. it might take too long to take them down and like i said the shield does not stop any of the status effects the ammo will offer.. (so the time it would take me solo to kill them is not worth the 25% xp for me).

    Special ammo directive is best for agents using cover and that have good CC or high dmg.. forcing a shield player into cover that mainly built into yellow and blue.. well it just takes too long to kill and neutralize the threat.
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  9. #9
    Sircowdog1's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by IgotNerfed Go to original post
    I think how it works is that there will always be at least one NPC with special ammo and if he/she gets killed it's randomly generated to pass it over to another NPC to keep the directive working.

    Fog of war is always working non stop once it's switched on
    Ammo hoarders is always working non stop once it's switched on
    Skill Cooldowns is always working non stop once it's switched on.

    so, I guess the only way they could make the special ammo directive permanently on is to pass the ammo around to keep it alive. No point in putting a box down because once it gets destroyed the directive isn't working anymore. Same reason stands if you killed an NPC who was using special ammo and no other NPC could use it the directive wouldn't be working.

    This is just my opinion, I could be way off and totally wrong, lol.
    I think I see where you're going, but consider this:

    Fog of War doesn't periodically turn off pulse, or disable it.
    Ammo Hoarders doesn't stop things like Bullet King or Gunner Spec.
    Cool Skills doesn't turn off Hard Wired or "Skilled" talent.
    No Regen doesn't prevent white buffs or fixer drones.

    So why should Special Ammo just randomly award new NPCs the directive after you've killed the one that started with it? That just seems like the devs being a-holes in order to give the directive a nonsensical, non-intuitive aspect for no reason.

    IMO, the directives are there to add a static extra step of challenge that the player has to account for. Whether they do that by being forced into certain builds or skills, or just outplay it with raw ability shouldn't matter. Once the directive is accounted for, it shouldn't randomly change just because.

    I HOPE that's not how the devs have set it up. But given Massive's existing penchant for screwing players because they think it's funny and/or difficult, it wouldn't surprise me.

    More research is needed, either way.
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  10. #10
    unless you are talking about he outcast support guy (doubl chevron with ammo box as backpack) htne it is IMPOSSIBLE for npc to just magically gain special ammo
    they start with it or take it out of the box or the will NEVER have it
    but hte thing is, if your using the special ammo directive, the icon on hte enemys will only be displayed after you hit them or they hit you
    so it is very much possible that you just didnot attack a spoecific enemy untill all other are dead to find out he has special ammo

    and at this very moment only fire ammo will not affect yu when shot at the shield, although bleeding might ave been adjusted to not go through the shield
    shock and disorient will still go thropugh the shield no matter what
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