This particular period and setting in Viking history is stale | Forums

[xaventh]

Just about every fictional media covering viking history is based on this particular time period. At this point its completely played out and I feel like it's a missed opportunity to be unique. How does everyone else feel about their choice of time period and setting within viking history and lore?

[Tundra 793]

I feel exactly the same as you. It’s not just that the period is already extensively explored in media, but also the setting. You could have set the game in the same period, just base it in Scandinavia instead of England, and you’d have a much more unique starting point for stories.

[VestigialLlama4]

Just about every fictional media covering viking history is based on this particular time period. At this point its completely played out and I feel like it's a missed opportunity to be unique. How does everyone else feel about their choice of time period and setting within viking history and lore?

It's an inevitable choice. England was the center of the Viking Expansion in the West. It was where they made the biggest impact and fought most of their big battles.

The Vikings did expand into Russia but the expansion there was largely peaceful and was mostly about getting on the good side of the Byzantine Empire, which they did. They also mostly traded there rather than do Viking stuff. So there's not much interest there for an action-adventure game. In the case of their raids on France, those were back and forth affairs, rather than establish a full settlement, until one of them became a Duke which happened much later in the timeline. It wasn't as significant or extensive as the ones in England and Ireland where Vikings did settle and actually did try and build whole communities, first around their Norse culture and later in assimilation with the Anglo-Saxons.

You could have set the game in the same period, just base it in Scandinavia instead of England, and you’d have a much more unique starting point for stories.

1) The game is going to begin in Norway and you can return there any time. So Scandinavia is featured.
2) The word 'Viking' is a verb that means to go "on raid" and people who Viking are Vikingers. So obviously if you show VIkings in Scandinavia where they don't do Viking stuff and mostly just hang there, you aren't going to be seeing them do too many Viking things.

[Tundra 793]

It's an inevitable choice. England was the center of the Viking Expansion in the West. It was where they made the biggest impact and fought most of their big battles.

It’s not inevitable. England was one part of the Viking Age, a major one, yes, but not the only one. And the game doesn’t have to focus on just 1 aspect of Viking expansion.

1) The game is going to begin in Norway and you can return there any time. So Scandinavia is featured.

No, Norway is featured. Norway is almost always featured as the backdrop for anything Viking related, because their deep fjords, snow covered mountains and northern lights just scream “Viking” at even a casual glance, but it’s not how all of Scandinavia looks, and I’d have loved more visual diversity in an AC game about Vikings. A game based in Scandinavia could have featured the green hills, and more temperate climate of Denmark, and the deep forests of Sweden to offer some visual variety.

2) The word 'Viking' is a verb that means to go "on raid" and people who Viking are Vikingers. So obviously if you show VIkings in Scandinavia where they don't do Viking stuff and mostly just hang there, you aren't going to be seeing them do too many Viking things.

Vikings still fought amongst themselves in power struggles, as the the 3 Viking nations began to form during the period. They also raided the rest of Europe, from bases, towns and kingdoms spread across Scandinavia.
They didn’t mostly just “hang there”.
Setting the game anywhere else but England could still have been interesting and fun, that’s my issue.

[BjarniRagnarson]

Yup, I also think it's a bit lazy. Our history is so much more thank just raids to England. Of course you want/need conflict for an AC game, but it's not like there weren't plenty of interesting feuds and conflicts within Denmark, Norway and Sweden during the Viking age. And personally, I always found the settlements of the Orkney and the Hebrides, and of course Iceland and parts of Ireland, just as interesting.

So yes, if the game mainly takes place in England, and a bit in Norway, it will be a huge disappointment (just like calling a male viking Eivor...).

[VestigialLlama4]

It’s not inevitable. England was one part of the Viking Age, a major one, yes, but not the only one. And the game doesn’t have to focus on just 1 aspect of Viking expansion.

To make an Assassin's Creed game, which is a sandbox where you can visit places, see stuff, explore stuff, and do tourism stuff, well you do have to narrow focus eventually.

This isn't a linear game where you have a single base and can go on endless discrete missions to special single-level areas and so ons...a la the battles of AC3. You need to see a sandbox where all the different systems and stuff interacts and a player can move and navigate with all that.

In the case of England in this period, in addition to the Vikings and the clash with the Heptarchy, you have monuments from the Roman era, the Saxon era, the Celtic era before that, you have a lot of mythological and landscape stuff you can play and interact with and focus on that specifically. Stuff like Stonehenge for instance. So there's a deeper pool to tap there.

[Greybush1982]

Personally, I would have gone with the expeditions and settlements in North America.
A few vikings vs a nation chock-full of Native Americans before about 90% of them died from diseases? Yes please!

[VestigialLlama4]

Personally, I would have gone with the expeditions and settlements in North America.

You are talking about Newfoundland and Greenland at best, because that's all they got to before they tucked tail and collapsed. That would provide you with a very small map and very little variety in story and open-world setting.

Open World settings need variety, and different communities to create and sustain interest. Remember how people complained about AC3 not having enough in its rather large and detailed open world? Because most of what they chose was very same-y and repetitive.

Viking England does provide that variety.

You need to think in terms of a Viking Open World.

Take Assassin's Creed Origins. The actual story and plot with Caesar and Cleopatra is fairly cliche but the open world and setting with the Pyramids, the Sphinx, Memphis, Alexandria, the White Desert, the Black Desert, Siwa, Lake Mareotis, Faiyum, Heracleion, all have so much variety and interest that you don't mind wandering around the open world (I rode horse across the map multiple times, getting the heat stroke animation and mirages many times).

That's what an open world setting is all about.

[Tundra 793]

To make an Assassin's Creed game, which is a sandbox where you can visit places, see stuff, explore stuff, and do tourism stuff, well you do have to narrow focus eventually.

Yeah... I’ve played AC games before. Nothin’ we’ve suggested here contradicts that philosophy.

In the case of England in this period, in addition to the Vikings and the clash with the Heptarchy, you have monuments from the Roman era, the Saxon era, the Celtic era before that, you have a lot of mythological and landscape stuff you can play and interact with and focus on that specifically. Stuff like Stonehenge for instance. So there's a deeper pool to tap there.

We’re not saying England in this period isn’t interesting, or full of potential. We’re saying we’ve seen it before, and had hoped for something more unique, that isn’t England. Scandinavia as a whole setting has just as many things to tap into, except they’d be things far fewer people know of, unlike say Stonehenge.

Open World settings need variety, and different communities to create and sustain interest.

Agreed, but what we’re lamenting here is that Scandinavia in the same, or really any period during the Viking age would have also provided that. Norway is mountainous and harsh, Sweden is heavily forested but temperate, and Denmark is hospitable but all islands.

To clarify; We’re not saying late 9th century England isn’t interesting, but we’ve seen it before. The characters, locations, battles and all the things we’ll no doubt encounter in game have been explored at length over the last 10+ years in dozens and dozens of other media. We would just have liked for something else, more unique and fresh from this AC game.

[VestigialLlama4]

Agreed, but what we’re lamenting here is that Scandinavia in the same, or really any period during the Viking age would have also provided that. Norway is mountainous and harsh, Sweden is heavily forested but temperate, and Denmark is hospitable but all islands.

To clarify; We’re not saying late 9th century England isn’t interesting, but we’ve seen it before. The characters, locations, battles and all the things we’ll no doubt encounter in game have been explored at length over the last 10+ years in dozens and dozens of other media. We would just have liked for something else, more unique and fresh from this AC game.

That's fair. In response to this, I will say,

1) I think you are overestimating how widely known this setting is among the ordinary and average people. People know Vikings for sure, but aside from the 1950s epic The Vikings, there hasn't beeen a mass entertainment version of this period for a long while. The recent VIKINGS TV show for instance doesn't have the high ratings of Game of Thrones, or Westworld or Breaking Bad, or Netflix. The Viking History of England or the fact that Vikingers actually settled and lived in Anglo-Saxon England and that entire period of history is fairly unknown to a lot of people.

For most people, ask them about English history, they'll think King Arthur, Richard the Lionheart because of the Crusades and Robin Hood, Henry the 8th, Queen Elizabeth and Queen Victoria. That's English History for a lot of people. Most people don't know who Alfred the Great is. Sure in the UK maybe, but remember UK has a population of 60million people or so, the Greater English Speaking World, is larger than that. USA has a population of 330mn people.

Most videogames rarely tackle the behind the scenes history of this. What motivates them is the myth so its stuff like Hellblade Senua's Sacrifice or the recent GOD of WAR, or the Marvel Thor Movies.

2) As far as actual Scandinavia Proper goes, I am afraid I am totally ignorant there about what distinguishes this period. I know there are some interesting figures here but the actual setting and life "back home" strikes me as being sparse in documentation in this period. Anyway, just treat me like the ugly tourist and make a pitch for how cool the setting is.