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  1. #1
    Agent_Ares's Avatar Senior Member
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    Is M1A OP? Or is really showing an Underlying Game Balance Problem.

    The biggest hot topic right now is M1A really Overpowered ( in PvE ) as players \ Developers claim?

    Developers feel people picked M1A because it was efficient while other guns were "Viable"
    In reality while a small portion of that is true, there is a bigger underlying problem.
    The M1A helps remove the "Slog" the Developers seem to be addicted to keeping.

    They keep saying, "So many of players want to slog through content shooting round after round feeling like they are shooting water guns!"
    But if that were the case ( which it isnt ) why did so many people feel the need to do use exploits to buff damage as much as possible?

    Answer:.
    Slog isn't fun.

    Does M1A need a nerf? Sure.
    But what needs a nerf even more - Enemy Armor.
    Enemy HP is fine - it's the armor and damage which is excessively overturned.

    They keep stating "Players want a challenge!"
    Well, there are better ways to add a challenge - while making it fair for players.

    Enviromental Challanges:

    An Environmental Challange is where the Environment works against the player. Where players need to do an action to prevent a total wipe.
    It could be;
    • Smoke filling up the room lowering visibility. Then increasing rusher spawns units until an action is done such as activating vents.
    • It could be fire filling up the room smashing cover, the player needs to shoot sprinklers to stop all cover from being destroyed
    • Mortar rounds that force enemy and player to hide behind cover.



    All these features equally affect the enemy as well as the player. Long-range Enemy units are unable to target the player decreasing accuracy in smoke.
    Less cover means enemy is more in the open.
    etc


    Promoting Good and Fairly Balanced Enemy CC.

    For example True Son's Riot Foam troops are fairly balanced. If player makes a mistake they get caught. But players can counter it easily because of the large tank easy to hit. This is a perfectly fair unit to fight against.

    Terrible CC example is Cleaners Engineer.
    The Bomb Drone not only moves fast, hard to hit, if you hit the drone while it is being refilled by the engineer 99% of the time it does 0 damage to the engineer. Which means getting a high skill shot is meaningless.

    Other issues
    Engineers Instantly repairing Equipment. Repair times for equipment is less than 1s. This makes players high skill shots again feel meaningless.

    Rushers Balance
    An example of a well balanced Rushers
    • Outcast and Hyena and True sons Rushers.
    • Outcasts have a suicide box
    • Hyena has a disorient bag
    • True Sons rusher has low health.



    Examples of Badly Balanced Rushers

    Cleaners Rushers - They run with a giant shield with no weak points. They have only positives and no downsides. What makes it worse is enemies will target you as the melee unit is attacking. Since enemy bullets do 500,000 damage a bullet this makes things ridiculous. It gets worse because skills if they shoot the shield runner from the back it will damage the shield instead of the unit. This also happens with certain Low RoF weapons where shooting the back damages the shield instead of the enemy.

    Examples of Good Grenadiers
    • True Sons - The Grenadier tank has a nice big ammo box that can disable his grenades
    • Hyena - Again a nice ammo pouch that does reasonably good damage and disables grenades
    • Outcast - You hit the weakpoint it causes the area around them to catch fire.



    Examples of Bad Grenadiers
    Black Tusk - This is really a Hitbox issue. The Grenadier Weakpoint ( backpack ) is not attached to the main body. That means there is a large gap
    [npc] [backpack - no hitbox ] grenadier weak point ]

    If you shoot him \ her from the side. The bullets can actually completely miss the weak point because the backpack has no collision box. The bullets can only hit a 2-pixel wide hitpoint box from the side and front.

    Cleaners Grenadier - even if you hit their pouch it just drops gas. The second gas drops they run away and escape most damage. Making this one of the most useless weak points in the game.

    A weak point shot is a Skill shot, and skill shots should reward the player.
    The thing Developers seem to misunderstand is they keep saying game needs "skill" but it never rewards skill.

    In this game only 1 thing matters and it isn't skill. Its Gear and that is based on 100% on RNG.
    Because it doesn't matter if you have a 100% headshot accuracy - a person with terrible accuracy will always out DPS a person perfect AIM if they have better gear. Gear is what determines the damage and effectiveness of a player. Gear's purpose shouldn't be damage it should be survivability. A Persons damage should be dependent on their skill.

    So Devs stop falling under the delusion "Skill Matters" if you don't actually reward skill.
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  2. #2
    Merphee's Avatar Volunteer Moderator
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    Yes, it was always a combination of both the weapon being overpowered and the state of NPCs. Only one change occurred (and then reverted).
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  3. #3
    JHemp12's Avatar Senior Member
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    This isn't going to be a popular opinion but the M1A is op'ed and it needs to be nerfed. Other Rifles need to be brought up a bit and the UIC15 Mod2 needs to be brought way up. It doesn't do the game any good for a single weapon to be so much better than every other weapon in the game. For example, Legendary is currently overtuned and needs to be nerfed but because of the M1A, it seems a lot more doable than it really is. Try doing Legendary without the M1A and you will see what i'm talking about.
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  4. #4
    CptCombatGamer's Avatar Banned
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    Originally Posted by JHemp12 Go to original post
    This isn't going to be a popular opinion but the M1A is op'ed and it needs to be nerfed. Other Rifles need to be brought up a bit and the UIC15 Mod2 needs to be brought way up. It doesn't do the game any good for a single weapon to be so much better than every other weapon in the game. For example, Legendary is currently overtuned and needs to be nerfed but because of the M1A, it seems a lot more doable than it really is. Try doing Legendary without the M1A and you will see what i'm talking about.
    Can't be done.....

    Oh yeah right....

    Use that unnamed YT turds RIFLE/SHIELD/FOCUS/META SLOT BS build....

    Use that other unnamed YT turds DEMO from distance cuz I'm a wuss to enter the room build....

    Use those other unnamed YT turds LETS SPAM BLINDER/AND THE USE M1A BUILD....

    OH BTW, "we" only do specific missions because it's the only ones that allow use to do it w/ said builds.....


    Ubi really needs to get it in gear....game is getting stale seeing 1 build, with a slight variation as "said" players are still looking for the META pieces....

    Just stand and look/peek at other players....I have not seen on original build since day 4 after WoNY release....everyone, and I do mean everyone I've seen is using M1A/LMG BS....or the DEMO build.....

    Old news....
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  5. #5
    xcel30's Avatar Senior Member
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    Once again, wait the devs "we will fix it guys" for the third or fourth tiem around, i just gave up counting
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  6. #6
    ko102crew's Avatar Member
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    All RIFLES need to be balanced better. Drop the M1A by 20% and bring the M1 Socom/CQB and Mk17 up 10% would give people more options.
    Then the other rifles like the UIC/SIG and so on should also be looked at. Especially the M16, I mean does anyone really use it? It seems like the poster child to days gone by.
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Agent_Ares Go to original post
    Does M1A need a nerf? Sure.
    But what needs a nerf even more - Enemy Armor.
    Enemy HP is fine - it's the armor and damage which is excessively overturned.
    I agree with the premise definitely, however, maybe not the approach. If they only nerfed enemy armor, and nothing else, the m1a would still be the best. But if they buffed a lot more weapons to be as effective as the m1a, then it makes getting other weapons more exciting and feel more rewarding for the time you put in.
    Originally Posted by Agent_Ares Go to original post
    Cleaners Rushers - They run with a giant shield with no weak points.
    Shoot their feet, that's their weakpoint, they instantly stagger if you shoot their feet ... You're welcome.
    Originally Posted by Agent_Ares Go to original post
    Terrible CC example is Cleaners Engineer.
    The Bomb Drone not only moves fast, hard to hit, if you hit the drone while it is being refilled by the engineer 99% of the time it does 0 damage to the engineer. Which means getting a high skill shot is meaningless.
    I've always found these were fair ... If you see them coming, and can't shoot them in time, the bombs drop in a predictable pattern and they are easy to dodge roll out of. The only time I get hit by them is when I'm in the middle of shooting a lot of enemies and I was careless to watch my back. If there is anything I would recommend, it's increase the sound effect volume. Sometimes it's like they come across ultra stealth because the sound effects are muted by other sounds of guns firing, grenades exploding, etc.
    Originally Posted by Agent_Ares Go to original post
    Other issues
    Engineers Instantly repairing Equipment. Repair times for equipment is less than 1s. This makes players high skill shots again feel meaningless.
    I would say what's more of an issue are medic NPC's not staggered by fire. You can be shooting them non stop but they will continue to keep reviving their comrade. I'm sorry, but if we have to stop reviving our teammates when we get shot at (or we'll die), then they should as well.
    Originally Posted by Agent_Ares Go to original post
    A weak point shot is a Skill shot, and skill shots should reward the player.
    The thing Developers seem to misunderstand is they keep saying game needs "skill" but it never rewards skill.

    In this game only 1 thing matters and it isn't skill. Its Gear and that is based on 100% on RNG.
    Because it doesn't matter if you have a 100% headshot accuracy - a person with terrible accuracy will always out DPS a person perfect AIM if they have better gear. Gear is what determines the damage and effectiveness of a player. Gear's purpose shouldn't be damage it should be survivability. A Persons damage should be dependent on their skill.

    So Devs stop falling under the delusion "Skill Matters" if you don't actually reward skill.
    I understand what you're getting at, but you're crazy if you don't think there is any skill involved. There is skill involved. There is also experience involved and reflexes. For example, I can't tell you how many times I see people get killed by rushers that never noticed they were there until they were dead. What that tells me is they are tunneling and not looking around them or even their mini-map to see red enemy indicators that right on top of them. And there are plenty of examples of that sort of thing.

    But I get your point. What I think the larger issue is ... developer man-power. I just think Massive doesn't have the staff to adequately manage the size of the game they created. So there will always be things that take a back seat in order to fix the more pressing things ... a lot of which we probably don't even know about.
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  8. #8
    xcel30's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by ko102crew Go to original post
    All RIFLES need to be balanced better. Drop the M1A by 20% and bring the M1 Socom/CQB and Mk17 up 10% would give people more options.
    Then the other rifles like the UIC/SIG and so on should also be looked at. Especially the M16, I mean does anyone really use it? It seems like the poster child to days gone by.
    I dislike that most of them are being balanced at being fired at max rof, never a good sign for semi auto weapons. But honestly the M16 is actually extremely fun to use it just suffers a lot from low ammo poll so you ran dry extra fast, honestly people should give it another shot, can easily hit for 600k headshots and being quite controllable despite being burst fire lets you stack three headshots quite nicely
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  9. #9
    Originally Posted by CptCombatGamer Go to original post
    Can't be done.....

    Oh yeah right....

    Use that unnamed YT turds RIFLE/SHIELD/FOCUS/META SLOT BS build....

    Use that other unnamed YT turds DEMO from distance cuz I'm a wuss to enter the room build....

    Use those other unnamed YT turds LETS SPAM BLINDER/AND THE USE M1A BUILD....

    OH BTW, "we" only do specific missions because it's the only ones that allow use to do it w/ said builds.....


    Ubi really needs to get it in gear....game is getting stale seeing 1 build, with a slight variation as "said" players are still looking for the META pieces....

    Just stand and look/peek at other players....I have not seen on original build since day 4 after WoNY release....everyone, and I do mean everyone I've seen is using M1A/LMG BS....or the DEMO build.....

    Old news....
    I can garauntee you my Pyromaniac and Vector completely disagree with your polling of *everyone* I don't use the M1A ( I do own 3 the classic the cqb and the socom) I have always favoured the MIlitary MK17 (for it's looks to match up with my Military MK16).

    I've always where possible avoided LMG's ( I get sick of listening to the chugger chugger chugger), I use rifles only when it's viable (if range is an option to thin a crowd), I just prefer to get in close and personal, if shotties were somewhat better then I would surely be using a shotgun / smg build of sorts.

    Youtube is banned in my house (blame the kids, I'm not that mean just sick of seeing them glued to tablets watching people enjoy themselves instead of enjoying themselves ...) so I don't follow any meta because 1 it's boring. 2 I'm definetley not a sheep.

    Not saying I completely disagree with you but please don't assume we're all the same that's just silly.

    I mean you clearly watch spewtube more than I do OMG metaboy .... (just joking of course).
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  10. #10
    CptCombatGamer's Avatar Banned
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    Originally Posted by Jakaslowpoke Go to original post
    I can garauntee you my Pyromaniac and Vector completely disagree with your polling of *everyone* I don't use the M1A ( I do own 3 the classic the cqb and the socom) I have always favoured the MIlitary MK17 (for it's looks to match up with my Military MK16).

    I've always where possible avoided LMG's ( I get sick of listening to the chugger chugger chugger), I use rifles only when it's viable (if range is an option to thin a crowd), I just prefer to get in close and personal, if shotties were somewhat better then I would surely be using a shotgun / smg build of sorts.

    Youtube is banned in my house (blame the kids, I'm not that mean just sick of seeing them glued to tablets watching people enjoy themselves instead of enjoying themselves ...) so I don't follow any meta because 1 it's boring. 2 I'm definetley not a sheep.

    Not saying I completely disagree with you but please don't assume we're all the same that's just silly.

    I mean you clearly watch spewtube more than I do OMG metaboy .... (just joking of course).
    Not watch, just search builds and guess what you see 95% posted vids....

    Same sh*tty ones w/ variances...

    Then go in game and peek at players, and what do you see, exactly what "posted" vids say is "BEST"....

    Doesn't take a genius...
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