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  1. #1

    Revert some of the Valkyrie nerfs

    IMO the Valk rework didn't really improve her it just made her different than she was before. I don't feel like she's really improved in quality over the year since. I feel like if some of the nerfs to things like her Full-block Shield Tackle were reverted it would improve her game tremendously. And besides let's be real, it's weird that a move where she holds her shield in front of herself and runs forward can be interrupted by stabbing the shield.
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  2. #2
    Don't be delusional. Old Valk was slow, had very few chains, and was extremely predictable. The knockdown shield tackle from the fullblock was epic but that isn't really necessary anymore now that she has these qualities:

    -Every possible 3-part chain combination of lights and heavies.
    -Side light finishers knocking and stunning, good for near walls.
    -Faster lights.
    -All heavies can be feinted to SB.
    -Better superior lights.
    -Shoulder pin was always nice, but shoulder pin...
    -You can cancel out of full block almost right away, which is good for getting even a GB after a successful block instead of always opting for a normal bash.
    -Recoveries improved significantly.


    I mean, she's improved in almost every aspect... The old Valkyrie really wouldn't stand a chance against the rest of the roster today.

    The shield tackle before was too safe in my opinion. It's possible to bait opponents by canceling out of fullblock quickly and then dodging forward. It can also guarantee a GB after a successful block, as Valkyrie can exit the stance really quickly.

    She has other ways of bashes, and if the fullblock to bash was so safe she would be more annoying to fight with every other tool she has.
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  3. #3
    Originally Posted by MCBooma16 Go to original post
    I mean, she's improved in almost every aspect... The old Valkyrie really wouldn't stand a chance against the rest of the roster today.
    New Valk barely stands a chance against the rest of the roster today. Her rework moved her from like a C to a B-. I'm not even advocating for a full reversion either, I just think making her shield tackle and/or her sweep not total doodoo would be great. Like, she has almost no unblockables and does very low damage compared to other characters, I think an annoying and safe shield bash is just what she needs.
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  4. #4
    Originally Posted by DoodTheMan Go to original post
    New Valk barely stands a chance against the rest of the roster today. Her rework moved her from like a C to a B-. I'm not even advocating for a full reversion either, I just think making her shield tackle and/or her sweep not total doodoo would be great. Like, she has almost no unblockables and does very low damage compared to other characters, I think an annoying and safe shield bash is just what she needs.
    Not really. The only thing she lacks is a solid opener, once in her combos, she has the mix she needs, her zone is weak, her dmg is great, her defense is good, she has good clear for 4v4s, she has way more options now than she did before and she's still decent in duels. And I play diamond 4+ rank on PS4.

    I personally think she's just as balanced as kensei and shaman. Maybe slightly weaker.
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  5. #5
    I'd love to somehow see her sweep not have friendly fire anymore.

    Her heavy feint to GB is useless, whiffs 100% of the time from the left it's literally broken.

    Her chain heavies being un-dodgeable would really tie the kit together IMO.
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  6. #6
    Originally Posted by FuncK_D Go to original post
    I'd love to somehow see her sweep not have friendly fire anymore.

    Her heavy feint to GB is useless, whiffs 100% of the time from the left it's literally broken.

    Her chain heavies being un-dodgeable would really tie the kit together IMO.
    Your right it would, but the combos after bash light or light light are either sweep, heavy, or light, if they're dodging early I've noticed sometimes the heavy doesn't hit but the light will. I'd even take the light being undodgeable. And I also wouldn't mind her gb tracking on faint to be better. And her zone sucks. But once she gets that mix going phewwwww
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by iadvisoryi Go to original post
    Not really. The only thing she lacks is a solid opener, once in her combos, she has the mix she needs, her zone is weak, her dmg is great, her defense is good, she has good clear for 4v4s, she has way more options now than she did before and she's still decent in duels. And I play diamond 4+ rank on PS4.

    I personally think she's just as balanced as kensei and shaman. Maybe slightly weaker.
    Valk lack way more than only a solid opener.

    As for her mix up, most of times what she does can be avoided on reaction.

    Defense is good ? May say her Cc are ok. But that alone doesnt give her a good defense. She doesnt even have an option select and her shield tackle is useless.

    Good clear.. okay you mention the Only thing she is decent at in 4s with her running speed.
    But still it doesnt makes her a good midder because she lacks the feats for that and overall her survivability is bad.

    Play Diamond 4 and say she is on the level of Kensei and Shaman ? I personnaly play those 3 and those 2 last are way above Valk in near every situation.

    Valk is weak in 1v1, weak in gank, weak in anti gank, weak and even annoying in group fights, she is not a good midder nor a good zone keeper.

    Valk only busted moove is her "deflect".

    A long time ago i would have listed all points making her weak.

    I dont have the energy anymore but when i see most post here saying Valk is kind of fine now in April 2020 i find it a bit crazy.

    And i also play Console.
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  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Siegfried-Z Go to original post
    Valk lack way more than only a solid opener.

    As for her mix up, most of times what she does can be avoided on reaction.

    Defense is good ? May say her Cc are ok. But that alone doesnt give her a good defense. She doesnt even have an option select and her shield tackle is useless.

    Good clear.. okay you mention the Only thing she is decent at in 4s with her running speed.
    But still it doesnt makes her a good midder because she lacks the feats for that and overall her survivability is bad.

    Play Diamond 4 and say she is on the level of Kensei and Shaman ? I personnaly play those 3 and those 2 last are way above Valk in near every situation.

    Valk is weak in 1v1, weak in gank, weak in anti gank, weak and even annoying in group fights, she is not a good midder nor a good zone keeper.

    Valk only busted moove is her "deflect".

    A long time ago i would have listed all points making her weak.

    I dont have the energy anymore but when i see most post here saying Valk is kind of fine now in April 2020 i find it a bit crazy.

    And i also play Console.
    Yep, diamond Elo and above currently sitting at diamond 3 whilst only playing pk, kensei, valk, and shaman.

    Valks deflect isnt busted, it's part of her defensive kit that I called good, not strong.

    If you're trying to light spam then no wonder you're not finding much success with her.

    Kensei is technically (highest rep) my main, I'm not going to go through all the reasons why I have him valk and shaman on the same level because this is a valk thread so I'll leave you with backstep shaman and parry kensei.

    Valks bash isn't useless? Lmao. It's a combo starter, and at my rank, connects way more than it whiffs. The back dodge guard, is still very useful, can eliminate characters starting their chains, obviously it's unsafe to use in their face, you have to use it as a react tool or to bait let's say a warden bash etc..

    Valk isn't weak in gank, she has more than a lot of the cast has in gank lol, ok, orochi, conq (typically feeds revenge) even aramusha. Heavy faint to bash into sweep or gb or light (suspecting the dash) are very good options and can yield high potential for dmg. She's not weak at anti gank either lol, she's not amazing considering she's single Target with very little aoe, but I've won plenty of 1v2s and a fair amount of 1v3s.

    She has good clear for mid and can hold zones better than once again, a lot of the cast.

    You're honestly downplaying the character wayyyyy too much. Shaman is better than kensei and valk, I'll admit that, but valk and kensei are definitely on the same level. Hands down.

    The only buff I can see her getting is a better zone and better tracking on faint into gbs. Zone is outdated like centurions and we've learned that zones are a powerful tool to a characters kit.

    Also you are literally not avoiding her ending mix on reaction. If you're sitting there expecting a sweep then yeah, but if you get smacked by a light, then heavy faint into bash, you're out of stamina.
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  9. #9
    At this point I definitely would go as far as to say Valkyrie is at all bad. I think she's great. Shaman and Kensei are great too, just different tools. That's a different debate, though.

    I don't think Valk's heavy SF to bash mixup is all too easy to react to. I typically need to make reads for when I think they're going to bash, and when I make the appropriate reads I can end up punishing her with a dodge attack or wait for a light or heavy.

    I would say those who say Valk is in a bad spot probably don't see many good Valks. I've only seen one other decent Valk in the last month or so. Valk really does have some great tools and need to be used in an appropriate matter, like the backdodge to FB. That can be used to create lots of distance by entering the stance, then immediately exiting, then doing a normal backdodge. It's good for baiting if your opponent is dodge happy, and can guarantee a GB or bash if you block. It's not good to use as part of a mixup, and you won't see players doing that...

    Usually if I find players able to react to many of my basic attacks, then I'll begin throwing some SF bashes in. This will encourage the opponent to throw more attacks, which will allow me more deflect and CC options to get the chain started again.

    It's safe to let the sweep go against heroes that have no dodge attacks, so don't worry too much about being punished with a GB.

    Valkyrie still has forward dodge GB, so backdodging isn't always going to work. Tracking really could be a little better for heavy feint to GB I guess. Zone is situational. I only use it to externally hit someone that's within the hitbox, but never as an option select or chain starter. It clears mid fine, but it's pretty much a dead move.
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  10. #10
    Originally Posted by iadvisoryi Go to original post
    Yep, diamond Elo and above currently sitting at diamond 3 whilst only playing pk, kensei, valk, and shaman.

    Valks deflect isnt busted, it's part of her defensive kit that I called good, not strong.

    If you're trying to light spam then no wonder you're not finding much success with her.

    Kensei is technically (highest rep) my main, I'm not going to go through all the reasons why I have him valk and shaman on the same level because this is a valk thread so I'll leave you with backstep shaman and parry kensei.

    Valks bash isn't useless? Lmao. It's a combo starter, and at my rank, connects way more than it whiffs. The back dodge guard, is still very useful, can eliminate characters starting their chains, obviously it's unsafe to use in their face, you have to use it as a react tool or to bait let's say a warden bash etc..

    Valk isn't weak in gank, she has more than a lot of the cast has in gank lol, ok, orochi, conq (typically feeds revenge) even aramusha. Heavy faint to bash into sweep or gb or light (suspecting the dash) are very good options and can yield high potential for dmg. She's not weak at anti gank either lol, she's not amazing considering she's single Target with very little aoe, but I've won plenty of 1v2s and a fair amount of 1v3s.

    She has good clear for mid and can hold zones better than once again, a lot of the cast.

    You're honestly downplaying the character wayyyyy too much. Shaman is better than kensei and valk, I'll admit that, but valk and kensei are definitely on the same level. Hands down.

    The only buff I can see her getting is a better zone and better tracking on faint into gbs. Zone is outdated like centurions and we've learned that zones are a powerful tool to a characters kit.

    Also you are literally not avoiding her ending mix on reaction. If you're sitting there expecting a sweep then yeah, but if you get smacked by a light, then heavy faint into bash, you're out of stamina.
    1/ I've never said i was doing light spam only with Valk
    2/ I did not say i was unable to perform with her. I said she is a weak hero, which are 2 different things.
    3/ I have 30 reps with her - Kensei is also my main and i also play on console usually at High Diamond at least (see how 2 similar player can have a very different opinion).

    Valk "deflect" as it is commonely labelled is stopping any follow up, only Zerk and Shinobi one can also do that (except Roch charged deflect but he can receive dmg in the same time). Shoulder pin is also a chain starter and does a huge 45dmg and in some situation guarantee the Following top light for a juicy 58dmg.
    If this is just "good" for you then, no problem.

    Not sure if you are talking about shield crush while saying Valk bash is not useless and connect often. But anyway you said both shield crush and shield tackle are usefull which i disagree with.
    -Shield crush is very telegraphed because Valk Must start with a neutral heavy which does not force ANY reaction because it has no property itself. You can then quietly wait for orange and dodge once you see it which leaves you with a free punish if you have a dodge attack or 2 choices if you Don't : wait for the light parry while keeping in mind a good player will probably chain with another heavy (which you can easly deal with again) or attempting a Gb on a read.
    But even if you get touched by the bash and then the light : Keep guard top and reaction dodge the sweep, reaction block side light or just cgb. If a heavy is coming then repeat phase 1.

    -Now about shield tackle, sorry but using it in order to bait your opponent barrely work at decent level. A good player can easly see if you are just dodging out of it or releasing it.
    And avoid mix ups with it exposed you to the classic feint into GB if does on reaction.
    While in the stance, you can't moove, can't dodge and once running the bash has no Fb property anymore, not even HA.. and all that for … 13dmg.

    Sorry but Valk bash's are both weak.

    I would even say her sweep is weak against most heros with a dodge attack.. Add to that it got nerfed 2 times : sweep ally and then does not lock revenge anymore.

    I Don't think i need to argue Valk is weak in gank AND anti gank.
    Her only option in gank is to bash for 13dmg.. not sure it is more than a lot of the cast… sure some are worst, Roch, Pk and a few others but the fact a few another weak heros are worst than her in some area does not makes her good.
    Anti gank speaking, valk has low dmg, assassin HP, bad perks and her feats are not survivability oriented excepted the 1st one so please enlight me at how she can perform in that scenario.
    Group fights speaking she is even a disadvantage sometimes due to friendly sweep.

    And again it is not because you've won some 1v2 or 1v3 that it means she is good… i think i've won some 1vx with every heros in this game, still it does not mean all of them are good.

    Her zone allow her to do some quick clean but then she better moove on.. Valk has Nothing special strong enough to play the Mid role. If it would be the case her name would appear among the good midders which is NEVER the case. Check yourself.

    Kensei in another hand has great feats, is a great midder, group fighter and anti ganker.
    Shaman is one of the best ganker, have insane rotation and is barrely winnable when she play the zone keeper role.

    So i am not downplaying Valk, i can perform correctly with her, but mostly because i outplay my opponents or they are just bad (which is the case for most of the playerbase).

    You can't even argue Valk is a strong heroe.. some are worst ? Sure. But it doesn't change she is really weak outside of low/average mmr.


    Originally Posted by MCBooma16 Go to original post
    I would say those who say Valk is in a bad spot probably don't see many good Valks. I've only seen one other decent Valk in the last month or so. Valk really does have some great tools and need to be used in an appropriate matter, like the backdodge to FB. That can be used to create lots of distance by entering the stance, then immediately exiting, then doing a normal backdodge. It's good for baiting if your opponent is dodge happy, and can guarantee a GB or bash if you block. It's not good to use as part of a mixup, and you won't see players doing that...
    .
    If your opponent is dodge happy it means he is a bad player to begin with. Then Valk of course do the job against those, as most heros.

    This thing to say if someone say Valk is weak he must never has seen a good one or maybe he just light spam with her is an old bad argue.. why ?

    Because anyone having a good level and knowledges about the game will tell you that Valk is weak.

    Just pick any Competitive list or data hub or FH stats and you will factually see it.
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