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  1. #11
    Originally Posted by Deathlyhearts Go to original post
    Also, yes.. some games handles those things, better -- others handles it worse and for every disappointed player you will find, just as many that welcome the change and are happy with it. That's the nature of EVERY single online game ever and that's fact you can't possibly argue against, because it has been proven time and time and time again in many different games over the years.
    Erm...I wouldn't bet on the majority of the few Players left are jumping up and down and around in extasy regarding the latest changes.
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  2. #12
    Originally Posted by Deathlyhearts Go to original post
    I am sorry, but I don't agree with your points, because you clearly don't understand how games, such as this function. Online live-service games, such, as the Division 2 can change at any given time and you, friend have agreed to that the moment you paid for access to the game. (Yes, that fine print nobody ever reads, but agree with nonetheless).

    This is clearly your only/first such game, because if it wasn't you would know how often nerfs/buffs are introduced in online games and how pretty much every game developer EVER failed to please everyone with any given change in a game. Also you should have informed yourself properly on what exactly it is you are buying and that your investment done e.g builds, gear etc can change at any given time.

    If this is something you can't handle, which clearly is the case, you should consider that this type of games perhaps aren't for you. Also developers do respect players investment and time -- you have played the game for 600 hours on record, so you got your money's worth long time ago. Even more so if you bought the game on sale.
    Dunno why you keep defending them. Personally, I'm too old to play cheesy game fanboy. The game was fun, I enjoyed it a lot, that doesn't mean I should suck their crap up and be happy. They clearly have no idea what direction they want to take with this game, they even said they weren't going to abruptly nerf the M1A, yet we saw what happened today. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I do really have a hard time no to think that they just took us for complete idiots with the "miscommunication issue".

    I'll just leave this here.

    https://youtu.be/vpZBzxeVo10?t=1744
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  3. #13
    Originally Posted by Alex..Gordon Go to original post
    Today, once again, unfortunately, Ubisoft and Massive Entertainment have proved that they don't understand how gaming environment and economy works.There are a few things very important to any game (online/offline/single player/multiplayer) are almost like nature laws:

    1. A game must evolve not revolve. Evolution is going forward while the past remains the past with good and bad. Is important to bring NEW elements into the game to compensate for the bad ones. You have a too good weapon, create a better armour, you have a a too powerful armor bring new weapons, and so on. This is the natural way. CREATE NEW stuff instead of 'balancing" the current stuff.
    NERFING is a tool that should be used ONLY ON VERY VERY VERY RARE occasions when some kind of recent creation is not way out of line, of the intended mechanic.

    2. Like in any other environment in order to grow is very important to have STABILITY. Does that make sense? Is pretty simple, if I stop playing for 1 year, when I comeback my builds must be the same, same efficiency against the content that was available at the moment I put the build together. Is normal that new content to require new solutions but don't mess up the working builds for the old stuff.

    3. Perfect balance exist ONLY if you make everything exactly the same so you END UP with one gun & one armour. The natural way is to make the best of any kind of weapon and armour.
    Some examples:
    - a very powerful sniper gun (HTI) should be very deadly but hard to play, hard to aim, requires a lot of skill to master it and because of the masive weight should make the player less mobile, slower.
    - a shotgun should be zero after 40-50m but from zero to 15m must be devastating. One slung very powerful against armor, the multi pellet ones should be very good against health
    - a high rate of fire weapon should be great against health
    - a low rate of fire should be very good against armor
    - a LMG gives crowd control but at very low mobility and low handling THIS are just examples.Also if the melee attack is powerful a NPC is doing it, should be the same when a player makes it.

    4. Respect the players time and money. Most of us, the players, the ones for paying the game, should be treated with respect regarding our time and money invested into the game. Is absolutely disrespectful to change the whole game after almost a year from lunch in such a matter that all the work and effort that we put in becomes ZERO. After farming countless hours for a build, you come and "rework" 90% of the game and our hard work and time are reduce to ZERO. HOW IS THIS RIGHT in any way?

    5. Game are for fun and the vast majority of the player are normal player NOT hardcore. The entire content and objects in the game should be available for the vast amount of normal players because WE ARE PAYING THE SAME MONEY as the hardcore players. You are penalizing us for having jobs, family...

    As a very clear example, today the Baker's Dozen was nerfed 40%. This is like buying a 500Hp car and after 6 months the car is modified with out my consent to only 300Hp. In real world this would be a criminal offence. Even more you did this in a very Trump way by "forgetting" to put this in the original Patch notes in order to delay a masive blow-back to this change.

    The fact that at this point there are no laws to protect the customers of the gaming industries gives the gaming companies Gods powers to do anything they want without any legal responsibility by hiding behind abusive EULAs.

    PS: English is not my native language, so if there are mistakes sorry.
    Hello this is Karen i want to talk to your developer!!!11111
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  4. #14
    Originally Posted by Deathlyhearts Go to original post
    Did DPS builds became ineffective after the M1A nerf? No, they didn't. My DPS build and all other of my builds are just, as effective. If they weren't after the nerfs I would look into ways to make them effective again. That's the whole nature of those games and it's up to the players to decide if that's something they want to put their time into or not. But to buy the game with the clear knowledge that your builds can change at any given time and then complain about it when it happens? I don't get that. Maybe it's just a matter of different perspective and that's fine. We all have different views and preferences.



    For the last ******g time I am not defending anything. How can people be so daft in here? Have you never heard of a different OPINION? Go ******g read on google what it means for **** sake. I am so done with trying to discuss anything with people like you. Continue to be ******g crying babies all you like. I don't ******g care. I will also happily take the warning for excessive language.

    Ok Zoomer.


    You, you, should go to Google search for the difference between "having a different opinion" and "defending an opinion".
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  5. #15
    OGTKCole's Avatar Member
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    Im not going to lie to you guys I hope Ubisoft removes Massive from development of any further Division games. I have been a Division player since the beginning, and they continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. At this point Im hoping the game dies, so maybe it can be rebuilt.
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  6. #16
    Originally Posted by PDGC_DJMirkko Go to original post
    To be fair see how another game like this managed similar issues: my example is destiny 2. With little to no nerfs, they took another look on how to handle balancing in the game. so, defending the nerfs in an online live-service game, by putting forward the user agreement its not valid. To be honest, i dont really mind the nerfs, but still what happens when the majority of the community decides they had enough and leave. I will end up playing a coop game with no player base. That means i will also be impacted. P.S. you havent explained how this games work either, you just said about the user agreement. Let me help you with that: this game is a business. As any other business it needs money to survive (that means a playerbase). That is the bottom line. I do agree some changes are required in a game but there are so many other ways of doing that without pushing your community away.
    Destiny 2 is a horrific thing example. You’re talking about a company that after the first year revamped every weapon in the game leaving behind a years worth of grinding. Then a year later they did the same thing with their gear 2.0 system making 2 years of that grind irrelevant. This is the same developer that claimed it was too hard to nerf pvp weapons and not end up affecting pve weapons , except when those pve weapons lend to content being clears. Then suddenly they can adjust them.

    Bungee at least is transparent though. They’ll tell you it’s coming. This was sneaky. Several dps builds in a game where we just came off bullet sponges and sloggy missions took significant hits. Especially rifle builds. The m1a was most certainly an outlier. It most certainly needed some adjustment. It didn’t need to be shelved. True patriot didn’t need to be shelved.


    To be quite honest there were currently very few tools that players depended on in thought situations. Nearly all those tool received significant nerfs. Fox’s prayers 50+% nerf , contractors gloves 30% nerf , motherly gloves , 50% nerf , m1a 60% nerf. When you add all those up a persons build that they grinded for takes a significant hit. The game becomes a slog again and people lose interest.

    Sure the hardcore are happy. The casual is unhappy. We all spend the same dollar amount. Why cater to one and disappoint another. They simply could’ve adjusted these values just for pvp. Which is what they should’ve done. Nothing that received a nerf was hurting the pve side of the game.
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  7. #17
    Originally Posted by Alex..Gordon Go to original post
    As a very clear example, today the Baker's Dozen was nerfed 40%. This is like buying a 500Hp car and after 6 months the car is modified with out my consent to only 300Hp.
    No, It is not. Not because 300HP is 60% of 500HP, but because - and everyone should know this by now - you don't buy games, you pay for a license to play a game and, especially in a service game, the developer reserves the right to make changes as they see fit, another thing everyone should know by now. Not to mention, nerfing a single item in a video game is not tantamount to altering the most important part of a car.

    You may not like it... I am not fully down with it either; there are many things I don't like about the game. And there are many changes I am not in agreement with; but, if I want to play games, I know what I am getting into once I pay for the license to play the game.

    The fact that at this point there are no laws to protect the customers of the gaming industries gives the gaming companies Gods powers to do anything they want without any legal responsibility by hiding behind abusive EULAs.
    There are laws that protect consumers for many different things, including software, just not laws that punish game publishers and developers for nerfing your in-game gun.
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  8. #18
    SHDLBC's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by SuspiciousPixel Go to original post
    You know why I prefer Division 1 over Division 2?

    Because the development team ran with their vision for their new IP. Concepts were simple yet brilliant. Then they started listening to the community, held ETF workshops and tried catering for everyone and their dogs. The game ever since went down the pan since they took what seems to me the Hardcore communities side. The game turned into some kind of PR marketing spin machine.

    Massive, Redstorm, Reflections are all excellent development studios with talented people but it seems Division is now stuck in limbo!
    Well said. I’m just kind of puzzled on why they would go back on so much of what they built with the first game. I remember one of the last SOTGs before WoNY one of the devs talking with almost absolute glee about how hard some of the things were going to be in TU8. It seemed really odd to me because at least since 1.4 the Division was a game where everyone could enjoy the lion’s share of the content, but with some things like Legendary and Incursions available for the more hardcore players. And even though they’re not for me, I was totally behind adding Legendary and Raids in TD2 for that part of the community.

    I recently saw an article that was brought up on my Google home page from a gaming website quoting Yannick saying they were pleased with the Community’s reception of WoNY and were definitely still looking to listen to feedback. I wondered if they were playing the same game I was playing or reading the same feedback I was reading. There seems to be a disconnect between Massive and a portion of the community.
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  9. #19
    Originally Posted by SuspiciousPixel Go to original post
    You know why I prefer Division 1 over Division 2?

    Because the development team ran with their vision for their new IP. Concepts were simple yet brilliant. Then they started listening to the community, held ETF workshops and tried catering for everyone and their dogs. The game ever since went down the pan since they took what seems to me the Hardcore communities side. The game turned into some kind of PR marketing spin machine.

    Massive, Redstorm, Reflections are all excellent development studios with talented people but it seems Division is now stuck in limbo!
    Like hell they ran with their vision in TD1.
    Ever seen the E3 gameplay reveal for TD1?
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  10. #20
    Bungee didnt use the nerf method. They changed and mostly buffed items. If you listened to SOTG from 1 of April UBI said the same thing: they were going to buff the under performers. Except ARs they didnt buff any weapons. For gear you have only nerfs and they buffed a little some of the talents. So, again, although they messed up, Bungee took the right path at the end.
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