Does conq suck? | Forums

[Sweaty_Sock]

[QUOTE=Goat_of_Vermund;14965357]I

This guy has been calling me BS names for days and it turns out they DONT EVEN PLAY THE GAME. - I mean this guy was saying use PK's dodge attack as a GB option select ffs

EDIT: the operative word in your statement Goat is 'if I overuse it' that means its not on reaction or that player would do it whenever you used it. Think of it this way, inputing heavy and cancel at the same time mean your reactions are freed up for the response, so using this guys 250 ms (its usually 300 but whatever) your free to watch and parry the response with your timing.

Reaction parry is actually going for a heavy, realizing whats up, and feinting as a cancel rather than a bait into your response, more like I went to heavy Raider with my PK, realized hes got HA mid combo, canceled into a block.

Buffering it is cancelling right from the get go, like throwing a side heavy with PK I always intended to cancel into a light from the other side, regardless of what the raider does (because its a single thought and therefore has no reaction time involved for me). Its just what I did, frees your brain up to move onto the next reaction/thought instead of what you were currently doing. now imagine doing this from the other perspective, throwing an always-meant-to-feint looking for the PK zone.

Its why your first zones would get through, and they would read the next and it gets parried. A good read by you there would then be to bait their anticipated parry by just heavy the zone angle into GB.

[Knight_Raime]

The reason i was leaving PK alone is because saying you can option select with her dodge attack is hilariously bad and shows little understanding of a characters problems (who has problems) - yeh she has a fast zone but it doesn't have allguard does it? You cant make mistakes on timing, bounce an attack and still come out on top?

Not taking sides between you two here but My overwhelming need to share knowledge has gotten to me. All dodge attacks can be used as option selects. This includes dodge bashes. Beyond that PK has exceptionally good recovery with her zone feint, dagger soft feint, and deflect. So she can absolutely zone feint into a HA attack and block/parry/deflect it. She can also dagger soft feint into HA and do the same things after.and having better recovery on her deflect allows her to GB after doing so and catch things in start up that you normally cant with other deflects.

[ArchDukeInstinct]

I'll bite

I'm playing a game you rage quit over an option select removal.

Huh? How did I "rage quit" the game over option select removal if I moved to Mordhau last year, long before the removal was even announced let alone occurred? lol You apparently don't even know when the changes in question occurred. I supposedly "rage quit" the game during a time that you would say Conqueror was "on top and even more OP on defense than now" which completely bungles your whole narrative that I "only play to win".

You cant 'feint back' into parrying a conqs zone. Why, lets use your figures to explain it with crayons - I throw a heavy, because thats what i'm doing. you see this 250 ms in (your stated reaction time) and zone, i see this 250 ms after that - thats 500 ms which is past the FEINT WINDOW. Hence, cant feint back. To parry you have to buffer the feint, meaning you are able to move past the feint windows removal e.g. not actually be stuck attacking. The fact you cant tell the difference in buffering let alone a read/guess is probably why you QUIT THE GAME ONCE YOUR OP CHAMP WAS NERFED.

Buddy, how many times do I have to tell you that feint to neutral is one of the two READS you have to make? I've said that repeatedly throughout this thread. The things afterwards such as parry the zone or dodge the side dodge shield bash are on reaction... You either have a very poor reading comprehension or are in some serious denial.

If you quite a YEAR AGO WTF ARE YOU STILL DOING HERE TELLING OTHER PEOPLE NOT TO PLAY CHAMPIONS

Well A) Just because I moved to Mordhau doesn't mean I never played For Honor again... I definitely played quite a bit of the most recent testing grounds changes when I heard about them for example and of course I played around with how ****ty a state Conqueror is in now with the most recent nerfs. and B) I played Conqueror a hell of a lot more recently than you have so why the hell do you think you're entitled to tell people to play Conqueror when you can't give one single reason to do so instead of playing Black Prior?

-I refused to play conq years go because he was too easy
-you refuse to play at all because conq is to hard.

'Nuff said

So why did I main Conqueror throughout all of year 1 when he was C tier at best?

Maybe you should stop making up easily debunked narratives and put up a valid and sound argument for once?

[Sweaty_Sock]

Not taking sides between you two here but My overwhelming need to share knowledge has gotten to me. All dodge attacks can be used as option selects. This includes dodge bashes. Beyond that PK has exceptionally good recovery with her zone feint, dagger soft feint, and deflect. So she can absolutely zone feint into a HA attack and block/parry/deflect it. She can also dagger soft feint into HA and do the same things after.and having better recovery on her deflect allows her to GB after doing so and catch things in start up that you normally cant with other deflects.

Dodge attacks make amazing option selects on virtually all champs, just not on PK with the late input on an outdated/old/wonky dodge attack

Recovery on her zone was never brought into question, that was an example explaining between feint cancel on reaction to the opponent and just buffering a feint with a heavy as part of a setup. This was in the context of responding to a conqs zone being used on response & the fact I stated you have to bait it to actually parry it. The example used and seemingly the big key point was I said you 'cant feint back into a parry on a conq using zone on reaction'

This is because
1) You throw heavy
2) conq reacts with zone (at 250 ms using his stated reaction figure)
3) you react to conqs reaction however its now outside of the feint window (+ 250ms so now at 500 ms reaction time)

Note* if you let the heavy fly the zones allguard beats it (if the attack doesn't knock you out first) and even HA wont trade through as the allguard stays in place during the attack. Also beats GB. Hence, a very powerful, safe option select.


To counter it you
1) throw a buffered feint (not a heavy you cancel on reaction)
2) conq reacts with zone
3) you parry, for your amazing heavy parry punish damage (not a light parry punish)

Meaning you cant throw heavies at the conq with any real intent to land one. Making him quiet safe and making the threat of feints carry less weight to a conq (not to mentioned reaction allguard for his 30 damage).

The second part was giving 'feint into GB or Feint into neutral' plan to beat conq a review (and the calling them reads) - either of these options is not offensive if the conq doesn't bite, hence 'incredibly good at contesting points' - furthermore on read the conq can GB and as you are not committing to anything either option will present no threat to him and he will either succeed or get CGB and the fight resets. Alternative is he just throws GB on reaction forcing infinite resets until you do something different (used to force you back into the allguard/zone responses).

This is before we even get into the bash

Basically, A conq that doesn't want to fight is a nut you will severely struggle to crack, with access to the best heavy perks and good feats to turtle out till revenge if needed against a second opponent who comes to try claim/clear a point

This makes conq not 'bad; and something someone willing to put some work into can still make a very viable pick.

My own opinion on conq is I dont like a turtle in the game after all the efforts to remove turtling, just like I dont like a stamina bully after they finally fixed stamina bullying. Thats just an opinion, others are allowed there own and I'm allowed this one.

[hihimetsisi]

@hihimetsisi, I am commenting at the same time as this thread in other threads without bringing any of this over into it, why, its just a discussion about a game - hardly something to stress about relating to something else hardly worth stressing about. I just find it interesting that you say you are all for discussions, yet pushing 25% of your posts ever are basically trying to shutdown discussion you dont agree with. That is something comment worthy.
.

The problem is i am not trying to shutdown you argument. There is no discussion with you, you arguing for the sake of argument ( and i already mention it)."yet pushing 25% of your posts ever are basically trying to shutdown discussion you dont agree with" Where did you get the 25%? The only post right know what i don't agree with is you're post because because you backpedaling youre words and now we are here at post #74. Do you know now why i told you to just stop .

"Enjoy sulking about balance changes rather than adapting, catch ya buddy/If you quite a YEAR AGO WTF ARE YOU STILL DOING HERE TELLING OTHER PEOPLE NOT TO PLAY CHAMPIONS" There you have it you're majesty (1000 post) this is comment worthy don't you think( i have nothing personally against you- we play the game we love but don't make *** of yourself) also one thing there is a reason why no one has replayed to arch because they understand what he meant. You just showed us how salty you are well that's a shame i knew it will go left.

[Sweaty_Sock]

The problem is i am not trying to shutdown you argument. There is no discussion with you, you arguing for the sake of argument ( and i already mention it)."yet pushing 25% of your posts ever are basically trying to shutdown discussion you dont agree with" Where did you get the 25%? The only post right know what i don't agree with is you're post because because you backpedaling youre words and now we are here at post #74. Do you know now why i told you to just stop .

"Enjoy sulking about balance changes rather than adapting, catch ya buddy/If you quite a YEAR AGO WTF ARE YOU STILL DOING HERE TELLING OTHER PEOPLE NOT TO PLAY CHAMPIONS" There you have it you're majesty (1000 post) this is comment worthy don't you think( i have nothing personally against you- we play the game we love but don't make *** of yourself) also one thing there is a reason why no one has replayed to arch because they understand what he meant. You just showed us how salty you are well that's a shame i knew it will go left.

You are picking a side and shouting shutup. Yes, you are. I detailed my arguments above. I play all champs - conq has less paint than he used to but he can still paint a damn pretty portrait.

EDIT: before you say it, i don't 'main conq' anymore, he was my second main back in the day. But i do enjoy random pick.

EDIT:EDIT: The 25% is you have 22 posts, around 4 are in here arguing literally to stop talking. So yes, thats pushing 25%. I mean, i havent read your other posts I just assumed they were different, sorry if I offended you and its more like 100%

[Knight_Raime]

Dodge attacks make amazing option selects on virtually all champs, just not on PK with the late input on an outdated/old/wonky dodge attack

Recovery on her zone was never brought into question, that was an example explaining between feint cancel on reaction to the opponent and just buffering a feint with a heavy as part of a setup. This was in the context of responding to a conqs zone being used on response & the fact I stated you have to bait it to actually parry it. The example used and seemingly the big key point was I said you 'cant feint back into a parry on a conq using zone on reaction'

This is because
1) You throw heavy
2) conq reacts with zone (at 250 ms using his stated reaction figure)
3) you react to conqs reaction however its now outside of the feint window (+ 250ms so now at 500 ms reaction time)

Note* if you let the heavy fly the zones allguard beats it (if the attack doesn't knock you out first) and even HA wont trade through as the allguard stays in place during the attack. Also beats GB. Hence, a very powerful, safe option select.


To counter it you
1) throw a buffered feint (not a heavy you cancel on reaction)
2) conq reacts with zone
3) you parry, for your amazing heavy parry punish damage (not a light parry punish)

Meaning you cant throw heavies at the conq with any real intent to land one. Making him quiet safe and making the threat of feints carry less weight to a conq (not to mentioned reaction allguard for his 30 damage).

The second part was giving 'feint into GB or Feint into neutral' plan to beat conq a review (and the calling them reads) - either of these options is not offensive if the conq doesn't bite, hence 'incredibly good at contesting points' - furthermore on read the conq can GB and as you are not committing to anything either option will present no threat to him and he will either succeed or get CGB and the fight resets. Alternative is he just throws GB on reaction forcing infinite resets until you do something different (used to force you back into the allguard/zone responses).

This is before we even get into the bash

Basically, A conq that doesn't want to fight is a nut you will severely struggle to crack, with access to the best heavy perks and good feats to turtle out till revenge if needed against a second opponent who comes to try claim/clear a point

This makes conq not 'bad; and something someone willing to put some work into can still make a very viable pick.

My own opinion on conq is I dont like a turtle in the game after all the efforts to remove turtling, just like I dont like a stamina bully after they finally fixed stamina bullying. Thats just an opinion, others are allowed there own and I'm allowed this one.

An option select's quality isn't only dependent on variable timings. One can look at LB's side dodge shove as an easy example here. Because PK is an assassin she has access to deflecting off of dodge. Having deflect access on top of her dodge attack means it's a decent one. What's usually most important is how timing of the two or more actions overlap. Like how one can avoid Valk's heavy and soft feint into bash on the same timing.

I mentioned the recovery on her zone because it was my understanding from the convo that you were asking or stating that you can't mess up with Pk's zone for option selecting and still be safe/benefit from said mistake. If I misunderstood then I apologize.

[Sweaty_Sock]

An option select's quality isn't only dependent on variable timings. One can look at LB's side dodge shove as an easy example here. Because PK is an assassin she has access to deflecting off of dodge. Having deflect access on top of her dodge attack means it's a decent one. What's usually most important is how timing of the two or more actions overlap. Like how one can avoid Valk's heavy and soft feint into bash on the same timing.

I mentioned the recovery on her zone because it was my understanding from the convo that you were asking or stating that you can't mess up with Pk's zone for option selecting and still be safe/benefit from said mistake. If I misunderstood then I apologize.

LB's dodge bash is good because even if you dodged early and eat the attack the HA carries it through. I think you misread the conversation a tad. Its about if conq is bad, PK was brought in with timings by someone to rattle off how good PK is by my logic (logic i was applying to conq). Its a pointless discussion at this point, the main person arguing doesnt even play the game now and just hangs around forums to whinge about conq not being any good (i.e. not broken at the moment so not worth playing)

[ArchDukeInstinct]

LB's dodge bash is good because even if you dodged early and eat the attack the HA carries it through. I think you misread the conversation a tad. Its about if conq is bad, PK was brought in with timings by someone to rattle off how good PK is by my logic (logic i was applying to conq). Its a pointless discussion at this point, the main person arguing doesnt even play the game now and just hangs around forums to whinge about conq not being any good (i.e. not broken at the moment so not worth playing)

It's a pointless discussion because all you've been doing is rehashing already debunked points as filler content between vengeful rants about how much you hate Conqueror.

Nobody but you cares that I play games other than For Honor. The reason you're freaking out about it so badly is because in your own tiny, little mind you had this narrative that I was some devastated Conq main getting his "punishment" for playing a class that you admitted to hating. Then the other shoe drops and I tell you that I mostly play another melee combat game now, crumbling your internal narrative and leaving you to stew in impotent rage.

And with that, time for another Mordhau session.

[Sweaty_Sock]

It's a pointless discussion because all you've been doing is rehashing already debunked points as filler content between vengeful rants about how much you hate Conqueror.

Nobody but you cares that I play games other than For Honor. The reason you're freaking out about it so badly is because in your own tiny, little mind you had this narrative that I was some devastated Conq main getting his "punishment" for playing a class that you admitted to hating. Then the other shoe drops and I tell you that I mostly play another melee combat game now, crumbling your internal narrative and leaving you to stew in impotent rage.

And with that, time for another Mordhau session.

I broke the arguments down in my response to Raime, claiming something as debunked doesnt mean it is (you probably believe in flat earth)

You do what makes you happy my man, me? I might jump on FH and play a few relaxing conq games