Does conq suck? | Forums

[hihimetsisi]

Thanks for contributing to the discussion

I am all in for discussion but after two pages with archdukeinstinct you still don't get it. You started with conqueror op after couple pages you're backpedaling the words you said. Its just annoying, that why i said just stop (you're just not for discussion you just arguing right know).

[Sweaty_Sock]

I am all in for discussion but after two pages with archdukeinstinct you still don't get it. You started with conqueror op after couple pages you're backpedaling the words you said. Its just annoying, that why i said just stop (you're just not for discussion you just arguing right know).

I'm not back peddling... he has OP defence. Thats what i said. what i said just above. And why i dislike him was included there as well, its a concept they were removing from the game put into a character (like jorm). You are welcome to not read, noone is forcing you too.

No linked vid here has convinced me otherwise nor have the conqs I bump into. Just cos a character has weaknesses doesnt make some aspects not OP. It means a balance pass is needed to balance out the OP with the UP (like cents wall splat, OP but its there cos the rest is terrible, doesnt un OP it).

EDIT: I also find it amusing you have posted 17 times in 2 years, and 2 are here basically saying 'stop talking'.

[hihimetsisi]

[QUOTE=EDIT: I also find it amusing you have posted 17 times in 2 years, and 2 are here basically saying 'stop talking'.[/QUOTE]

What does that have to do whit OP post right know? You sound really stupid by mentions this Sweaty_Sock. do i need to post 1000+ and above so can you can take criticism well?
First i played for honor on PS4 so i you need to make Ubisoft account for that and second i don't need to participate in discussions its open forums you can read and take information and leave.You do know you sound salty and frustrated right and don't reply back with "no i am not frustrated etc." because you wouldn't EDIT you're post.

[ArchDukeInstinct]

But those two 'reads' arnt reads, they are guessing which group will be countered by an action? I said conq is OP on defence, which he still is. He's one if not the best champs at just standing there contesting a point and refusing to fight outside of the odd target switch dodge/bash or potential allguard. Two videos have been linked, both clearly showing that he has strong defence and a strong base to fight from.

So what is the option select that is not countered by one of the two reads that I put forth? Can you elaborate on that?

not putting in effort isnt my issue, thats yours. The tools are there if you really want to try to do well. You have to relearn some habits you picked up when he was on top of the pile. Like I said cent got hit with the GB vulnerability as well, but the people left playing cent are doing so knowing hes a bad champ and they will need to be better to win. Personally I play the worst champs for that very reason because I enjoy the challenge of making them function - and conq hasn't made it into my 'bottom of the pile' group once since rework. If you want to put in less effort for more results, simply follow the current meta pick like many players do (which is entirely their choice).

Okay, so anytime anybody points out that a class is a bad state, we will tell them they need to just put the effort into making the class work.

I brought up the year 1 moves that were still very powerful (one was broken) - it was removed for that reason on rework.

Yeah but when your overarching narrative is that Conqueror "has been on top for sooooo long" and then start bringing up year 1, you just look ridiculous.

Its pretty petty that you are deliberately avoiding the point being made in such a cheap way - its like picking on the spelling of a word rather than addressing the sentence its in, even though you understand it clearly the point being made.

Well it's pretty petty that you insist Conqueror's defense is OP because he has a zone parry option select but when I bring up that Peacekeeper has one as well, you simply refuse to acknowledge it and instead say you "won't give a dissection on this one".

I'm trying very hard to resist replying in your style of attacking someone personally for a discussion a about a character in a video game (we both play and enjoy enough to talk about online about)?

Well I'm sorry that your ego took a hit when I told you that Conq's zone attack can easily be parried on reaction. I can see how that might feel like that is a personal attack when you admitted that you aren't capable of doing so yourself. I tried to dull the potential blow by blaming your setup. Which I still think you should take a look at.

However, while I am sorry for your ego, I have to look at what can be reasonably done by a decently experienced player with a workable setup in tolerable lag conditions. I can't just say "Oh well this one guy can't parry zone attacks so all zone parry option selects are OP"

I'm going off Newton- every action has an opposite and equal reaction - if you hit an armoured dude inertia will act on the flail - force transfers through causing damage, the flail loses the force it was using to overcome gravity and falls down, held on by the chain. I mean just imagine what would happen if you threw the flail head at them instead of swinging it on a chain, it will bounce off and fall to the ground. Then imagine it has a chain attached to it. This isnt even relevant but for some bizarre reason you even want to try belittle this basic concept of physics as well?

Wouldn't the ball held by the chain just bounce off too and fall towards the ground to the extent that the chain's length allows it to fall while continuing to be dragged with the swing? You said the ball would simply stop once it collides with an object and that you have to "start from scratch" and do another swing to get it to start moving again. And that's your bizarre reasoning as to why Conqueror shouldn't have an infinite light chain.

Worst perks in game? He has access the the heavy perks?! Those that are considered the best? Vengeful barrier and bastion are 'some of the worst?!?!?!?!?!? These are part of what make conq so good at contesting points. He just can no longer OP through minions and get all his HP back through feats, which was utterly broken by any stretch of the imagination.

My mistake, I meant to say feats not perks. You called the shield bash feat a perk and I carried the terminology.

IF YOU CANNOT BE BOTHERED TO PUT THE EFFORT IN TO MAKE YOUR CHARACTER WORK THEN THAT IS YOUR OWN ISSUE -the reason I bring up cent, PK and others is that the people who make it work put in effort, and look at what they DO HAVE rather than what they DO NOT have. Its a very different mind set and not as uncommon as you would think among people who enjoy playing the game and not just winning the game.

Part of having fun is not needing to put in 10 times the work and effort to chip away while classes like Black Prior do 50 damage in 2 swings simply because instead of doing bash - light, you did bash - heavy and the opponent made the wrong read.

I hate to burst your sad little narrative, but I never played "just to win". If I did, I wouldn't have played Conqueror throughout all of year 1 and I wouldn't have picked up Nuxia on Marching Fire's release and get her over 20 reps while Conqueror was much more viable than her and I wouldn't have played a ton of Jorm in year 3 either.

[Sweaty_Sock]

@hihimetsisi, I am commenting at the same time as this thread in other threads without bringing any of this over into it, why, its just a discussion about a game - hardly something to stress about relating to something else hardly worth stressing about. I just find it interesting that you say you are all for discussions, yet pushing 25% of your posts ever are basically trying to shutdown discussion you dont agree with. That is something comment worthy.

@ Arch
But I can parry these things... noone ever said otherwise (other than you, making things up so you can have an attack at skill over discussion on conq). I have hundreds of reps across all the champs - buffering a feint isnt parrying on reaction. Its feinting and hoping they do the move you want & parrying it. Let me guess, the conq instead throws a light from the other direction and you flawless parry that with the 100ms remaining after feint as well. There is time left in the maths so therefore its easy. Or better yet, what if you do your two choices - heavy into GB or heavy into Neutral, and the conq just throws a GB. Reset, reset, reset, reset, reset, reset....

The reason i was leaving PK alone is because saying you can option select with her dodge attack is hilariously bad and shows little understanding of a characters problems (who has problems) - yeh she has a fast zone but it doesn't have allguard does it? You cant make mistakes on timing, bounce an attack and still come out on top? Furthermore in PK threads I always say her zone needs a nerf or change in exchange for more on the kit. Its a give/take, as with all things. She may be fairly weak, but the zone needs to go in order to make room for the rest of the kits balancing.

And yes, Conq was bad season 1 but with some VERY broken moves. The gb off block into cliff was one such move. Saying otherwise is just foolish.

Your understanding of physics is limited. Go put a tennis ball on a string, put some holes in it so its not bouncy and try what you are saying would happen. If you just kept swinging you would slowly drag a ball across their shin as it doesn't have any of the built up momentum... or you'd have to wind up and swing again with the same momentum as the first hit to actually get anywhere. Just because a heavy object is on a chain doesnt change the fact that it loses its force. There is a reason flails barely existed outside fantasy (and most real versions were two handed and had a tiny chain) and yet putting the ball on a stick (a club/mace) lasted thousands of years across virtually every culture.

Conq is still viable, he is AVERAGE. This is what I have been saying, its a mix over OP & UP that washes out into an overall AVERAGE champ. And yes, he was ontop for a VERY long time, since rework till gradual nerfs. Pretending otherwise overlooks his consistently high winrate (unless every conq player was just better than everyone else?).

You have gotten very blunt, and direct, and have attempted to belittle everything I put forward because 'conq is unplayable dont bother because people can do things about your moves now!' - thats frankly a joke and shows that you are not interested in playing the character, just winning with the character. Use skill & your head to overcome this rather than complain about a missing broken heavy option select.

This discussion is getting pointless because whatever is said will simply meet a hypothetical 'just block, just parry, just dodge' followed by a snide comment directed at me. If the game functioned so simply then at high tier noone would ever get hurt as they would just block, dodge or parry....

@ you both - this is devolving into name calling from the pair of you rather than a discussion about conq. You have your ideas, I have mine. I will leave it at that.

[ArchDukeInstinct]

But I can parry these things... noone ever said otherwise (other than you, making things up so you can have an attack at skill over discussion on conq).

Whoops, you got caught in a lie. See the following quote:

For me however its the zone that is the broken part of the kit (why does it have both all guard and cant be GB). The 600 ms means i cant feint back into parry on it so its pretty much eat the light, and dont go near the conq unless you have an UB from neutral.

I have hundreds of reps across all the champs - buffering a feint isnt parrying on reaction. Its feinting and hoping they do the move you want & parrying it. Let me guess, the conq instead throws a light from the other direction and you flawless parry that with the 100ms remaining after feint as well. There is time left in the maths so therefore its easy. Or better yet, what if you do your two choices - heavy into GB or heavy into Neutral, and the conq just throws a GB. Reset, reset, reset, reset, reset, reset....

So just more jibber jabber and nothing about my question as to what, if any, option selects aren't countered by the 2 reads I proposed.

The reason i was leaving PK alone is because saying you can option select with her dodge attack is hilariously bad and shows little understanding of a characters problems (who has problems)

What's the problem with the dodge attack, buddy? Is it because it's super easy for the opponent to feint their attack to neutral and parry it but you can't say that part out loud because it would kill your whole argument regarding Conq's zone?

yeh she has a fast zone but it doesn't have allguard does it? You cant make mistakes on timing, bounce an attack and still come out on top?

Uh? Yeah you can. It's a 400ms attack dude. It'll easily interrupt an average speed heavy of 800ms if you do it early. Sounds to me, like you're the one who doesn't know what he's talking about.

But I think the real question we need to ask is, what if you feint your attack and "prep the parry" as you like to say and *gasps* Peacekeeper doesn't do anything? Will that make you an "ADVANCED TURTLE"???

Your understanding of physics is limited. Go put a tennis ball on a sting, put some holes in it so its not bouncy and try what you are saying would happen. If you just kept swinging you would slowly drag a ball across their shin as it doesn't have any of the built up momentum... or you'd have to wind up and swing again with the same momentum as the first hit to actuall get anywhere. Just because a heavy object is on a chain doesnt change the fact that it loses its force. There is a reason flails barely existed outside fantasy (and most real versions were two handed and had a tiny chain) and yet putting the ball on a stick (a club/mace) lasted thousands of years accross virtually every culture.

Man, this guy hates the 18 damage infinite chain so much. He's devolving to literally asking people to put a tennis ball on a string and swing it. "You think Conqueror having an infinite light chain is okay? Put this tennis ball on a string and you'll be eating crow".

You have gotten very blunt, and direct, and have attempted to belittle everything I put forward because 'conq is unplayable dont bother because people can do things about your moves now!' - thats frankly a joke and shows that you are not interested in playing the character, just winning with the character. Use skill & your head to overcome this rather than complain about a missing broken heavy option select.

Give me one good reason to choose Conqueror over Black Prior.

This discussion is getting pointless because whatever is said will simply meet a hypothetical 'just block, just parry, just dodge' followed by a snide comment directed at me. If the game functioned so simply then at high tier noone would ever get hurt as they would just block, dodge or parry....

So you're upset because I have a completely reasonable answer for every situation you came up with?

[Sweaty_Sock]

Whoops, you got caught in a lie. See the following quote:





So just more jibber jabber and nothing about my question as to what, if any, option selects aren't countered by the 2 reads I proposed.



What's the problem with the dodge attack, buddy? Is it because it's super easy for the opponent to feint their attack to neutral and parry it but you can't say that part out loud because it would kill your whole argument regarding Conq's zone?



Uh? Yeah you can. It's a 400ms attack dude. It'll easily interrupt an average speed heavy of 800ms if you do it early. Sounds to me, like you're the one who doesn't know what he's talking about.

But I think the real question we need to ask is, what if you feint your attack and "prep the parry" as you like to say and *gasps* Peacekeeper doesn't do anything? Will that make you an "ADVANCED TURTLE"???



Man, this guy hates the 18 damage infinite chain so much. He's devolving to literally asking people to put a tennis ball on a string and swing it. "You think Conqueror having an infinite light chain is okay? Put this tennis ball on a string and you'll be eating crow".



Give me one good reason to choose Conqueror over Black Prior.



So you're upset because I have a completely reasonable answer for every situation you came up with?

If thats reasonable answers, congratulations, you win the internet.

Enjoy sulking about balance changes rather than adapting, catch ya buddy

[ArchDukeInstinct]

If thats reasonable answers, congratulations, you win the internet.

Enjoy sulking about balance changes rather than adapting, catch ya buddy

I'm sure that's what you would like to think in order to detract from the big L you took here, but I already moved to Mordhau last year.

I'll leave you with the crown on saltiest dude that got so mad about balance changes that you have self admittedly refused to play Conqueror since his rework.

[Sweaty_Sock]

I'm sure that's what you would like to think in order to detract from the big L you took here, but I already moved to Mordhau last year.

I'll leave you with the crown on saltiest dude that got so mad about balance changes that you have self admittedly refused to play Conqueror since his rework.

I'll bite

I'm playing a game you rage quit over an option select removal.

You cant 'feint back' into parrying a conqs zone. Why, lets use your figures to explain it with crayons - I throw a heavy, because thats what i'm doing. you see this 250 ms in (your stated reaction time) and zone, i see this 250 ms after that - thats 500 ms which is past the FEINT WINDOW. Hence, cant feint back. To parry you have to buffer the feint, meaning you are able to move past the feint windows removal e.g. not actually be stuck attacking. The fact you cant tell the difference in buffering let alone a read/guess is probably why you QUIT THE GAME ONCE YOUR OP CHAMP WAS NERFED.

If you quite a YEAR AGO WTF ARE YOU STILL DOING HERE TELLING OTHER PEOPLE NOT TO PLAY CHAMPIONS

-I refused to play conq years go because he was too easy
-you refuse to play at all because conq is to hard.

'Nuff said

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I'll bite

I'm playing a game you rage quit over an option select removal.

You cant 'feint back' into parrying a conqs zone. Why, lets use your figures to explain it with crayons - I throw a heavy, because thats what i'm doing. you see this 250 ms in (your stated reaction time) and zone, i see this 250 ms after that - thats 500 ms which is past the FEINT WINDOW. Hence, cant feint back. To parry you have to buffer the feint, meaning you are able to move past the feint windows removal. The fact you cant tell the difference in buffering let alone a read/guess is probably why you QUIT THE GAME ONCE YOUR OP CHAMP WAS NERFED.

If you quite a YEAR AGO WTF ARE YOU STILL DOING HERE TELLING OTHER PEOPLE NOT TO PLAY CHAMPIONS

-I refused to play conq years go because he was too easy
-you refuse to play at all because conq is to hard.

'Nuff said

I have to disagree with you. People are parrying my Peacekeeper's 400ms zone optionselect after a feint consistently if I overuse it, doing the same to Conqueror's 600ms one is easy- I actually believe you have enough recovery to go for a deflect on it, at least I recall seeing such things. I won't throw around numbers, I don't know them, but from experience, I know for a fact it's possible.