Does conq suck? | Forums

[The_Sentinel_]

rep 70 conp main, can't remember the last time I played him though, he has become very week, one dimensional. I regret investing 70 reps in him had I known he will in in his current state. he needs some love from devs

[Erhanninja]

Same here. I invested in Nobu and Conq. They got nerfed to the ground pretty much bottom tier right now.

[MCBooma16]

Fishmo just released a new video recently. Two actually.

Fishmo has to be the greatest, if one of the only few high tear Conq's in all of for honor. His playstyle is significantly differentiated from the average Conq.

He plays on console, but perhaps this will give everyone a better idea of what Conq can do. Despite the GB vulnerability change, he can still get his heavies through. Notice how he doesn't take a single hit through the entire video.

https://youtu.be/v7jZTZF6lvY

Here's a video of Freeze talking about all of Conq's option selects.

https://youtu.be/yWi6qc8Tfys

[tron0150]

Conq is op, but playing as him is very boring

[Goat_of_Vermund]

Fishmo just released a new video recently. Two actually.

Fishmo has to be the greatest, if one of the only few high tear Conq's in all of for honor. His playstyle is significantly differentiated from the average Conq.

He plays on console, but perhaps this will give everyone a better idea of what Conq can do. Despite the GB vulnerability change, he can still get his heavies through. Notice how he doesn't take a single hit through the entire video.

https://youtu.be/v7jZTZF6lvY

Here's a video of Freeze talking about all of Conq's option selects.

https://youtu.be/yWi6qc8Tfys

I was about to link those. They are indeed awesome.

I would add this youtuber: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSGID9aOJPY

He can still be very good, but it takes very high skill to be good with him.

[Frozty85]

Conq is op, but playing as him is very boring

that 1% or less of the community can get something out of conq does not mean he is OP, that just further proves he is UP.

[King_of_Xibalba]

Didn't know this fishmo dude, awesome! thanks for sharing Mcbooma

I was ready to post that, in conclusion, conq does suck... but the evidence in the videos and the reasoning behind some veteran posts, convinced me that he is underpowered but he does not necessarily suck. Maybe is time to give him a second chance in my gameplay sessions.

[Pankivtanke]

Conq works well only if you know where is good time to full block stance, basically if you good with defense. Otherwise if you dont use that - better just pick vortiger and do bashes.

[ArchDukeInstinct]

Here's a video of Freeze talking about all of Conq's option selects.

https://youtu.be/yWi6qc8Tfys

Freeze's video is nothing more than a gish gallop. He dangles all these "different option selects" and tries to make it sound like there's an endless list of tools for Conqueror to use defensively and therefore he must still be extremely safe defense wise.

But at the end of the day, all these option selects can be grouped together by easy to perform, common counters.

• Zone Parry
• Heavy Superior Block on light timing
• Side Dodge into Shield Bash
• Heavy into Shield Uppercut

These can all be easily reacted to and punished accordingly by simply feinting to neutral and waiting.

If it's a zone, you can parry the 600ms attack on reaction.
If it's a heavy superior block attempt, you can parry the heavy on reaction.
If it's a side dodge into GB, you can dodge backwards on reaction to the side dodge, the shield bash will whiff in front of you for an easy GB on reaction.
If it's a heavy into shield uppercut, you side dodge an 800ms bash on reaction for a guaranteed GB.

There is no distinctive read that is needed to be made for each of the items in the above group, simply one read to wait and react accordingly.

• Charged Heavy Parry
• Full block
• Heavy into Full Block
• Heavy Superior Block on heavy timing
• Side Dodge with no shield bash

Feign into guard break and it's obvious you beat all of these "option selects". And Freeze essentially admits this himself at 10:00 in the video but then for some reason insists that they're only a "little less safe" now. Which is a bizarre understatement to make considering the topic of the video.

While it is true that Conqueror's strength was in having a wide range of option selects for defense, it was more specifically a wide range of practical option selects that needed unique counters and thus a unique read from the opponent. The only reads you will need to make now vs a Conqueror to get past his defense is whether to feint into a GB or whether to feint into neutral and react accordingly to punish.

With my main point out of the way, here's a couple other issues I have with the video.

One is that Freeze seems to have a very loose definition of what constitutes a unique option select for Conqueror.

For example he mentions doing a charged heavy parry into full block as an option select. This is the same as saying any other character feigning a heavy parry attempt is also an option select, except Conqueror's version is weaker because it has a much higher GB vulnerability of course.

Freeze include option selects that every character has

There's a section on Valkyrie's heavy/bash, Peacekeeper's heavy/soft feint light, Shaman heavy/soft feint light. These can be dodged to avoid both the heavy and the soft feint. Every character can dodge both the heavy and these soft feint attacks simultaneously, so why is it in a video about Conqueror's option selects other than to inflate the number of "option selects"?

And that's why I call the video a gish gallop, a lot of these option selects are either not unique to Conqueror or aren't worth mentioning to begin with because they are weaker alternatives of what other characters already have which but are countered with the same move and timing.

Freeze puts in extremely niche option selects such as the ones with Nuxia's trap

It's only useful against one character and you can already light on reaction to seeing the trap indicator anyway. Again these are only in there to inflate the number of option selects and make it sound like opponents having some mountain of option selects to predict if they want to break Conqueror's defense.


I guess the overall theme here in my response is that what sounds impressive in theory doesn't equate to a real advantage in 99% of actual fights with real opponents that are trying to win. Conqueror simply no longer has the exceptional defense he used to have and people need to stop pretending that he does. At best it's slightly better than average because he has some nifty things like block on dodge and his zone parry can block soft feints into another direction.

[Sweaty_Sock]

Conq is most in need of a rework right now. I hate jorm, but conq is worse. Since the rework i cant bring myself to play my rep 17 conq

The zone was a lazy fix to the fact you used to accidentally start a crushing counter on the old zone in minions.

Its 2 year bandaid to a bad script, never addressed.....

Edit: conq is a relic of the past, its a turtle. Plz address that fact, op on defense and now with 18 damage infinite light chain.... wtf..............

& arch, those descriptions work for SOME characters... conq can light on whiff like nubu (and thats a bread butter mixup)

I CANT FEINTOUT A ZONE RESPONSE AND EITHER GUARDBREAK OR PARRY IT. Thats before the other things you can do....