Does conq suck? | Forums

[King_of_Xibalba]

I tried to play as conqueror a month ago... Was my worst playing session since I got the game.

I only play assassins and two heavies hito and muh powerful "Jarl Borg" , a Warlord.
Since my Warlord has an 4.20 kill death ratio against other players I thought conqueror would be a great heavy too. They both have full block stances and rely on defense.

OH boy, I was soo mistaken. Kill death ratio with conq...1.20. Did terribly in 4vs4 one teamate even insulted me for how bad I was.
He is not only so different, also slow and without feints or options, only turtling and bash or side bash or very difficult to do crushing counters. That's it. Is not weak per se but very limited and for me boring as hell.

[Erhanninja]

Some people might disagree but Conq is one of the worst heroes in this game right now.He got nerfed relic from season1. I think he is slightly better than Nobu as he at least has an offence. That's about it.

[ArchDukeInstinct]

Thanks you for your input. To be successful he has to rely on his crushing counters which are very hard now because I they changed the visuals to the guard input. I think that was it, i stopped playing around then so I can't exactly remember. Almost every character has hyper armor, a "heavy who hits hard" should too. Then something needs to be changed to full block stamina, unblockable charge up time or whatever for either of those two if nothing gets added to his kit.

But even the superior block counter that Conqueror has is hot garbage compared to Black Prior's superior block on light. BP's light basically has no GB vulnerability in comparison, a significantly larger timing window to successfully counter, and works against both lights and heavies whereas Conqueror can only counter heavies and hit before the opponent can block. Conqueror will get more guaranteed damage, but BP will be instantly setup for light + bash + light for 32 (15 + 17) damage or a whopping 50 (15 + 35) damage if you try to dodge the bash and he instead goes for a combo heavy. Unless you can guess the 50/50 right every time Prior is easily going to walk away with more damage over the course of the overall fight if all you did was use superior block. Not to mention, Prior can just do his bulwark counter if he really wants to get 30 damage as a punish on a heavy attack.

All Conqueror had in his advantage compared to Prior was a harder defense to crack because he had more option selects and especially had the charging stance option select which was very safe.

Prior has a good zone parry OS, he has dodge on block, he has a superior block light, he has a super fast all guard with fast flow on block to shutdown 400ms combo attacks or soft feints into different attack directions, and he has bulwark counter to shut down bash based offense.

Prior's defense is better than Conqueror's defense at this point in time, period.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

He definetely should get a second rework, along with centurion, nobushi, shinobi and highlander (and most assassins should get a buff as well). It is ridicoulous how many tools they designed for conqueror, with half of them completely failing to live up to expectations.

I think he now has the healthy amount of defense (the superior heavy should be unblockable, or he should just get a superior light as well). I think he has some tools which makes him superior over prior's defense, while Prior has some that evens the odds. Conq's fullblock is not necesssarily inferior to bulwark (for example, it shuts down zone optionselects very well), and Prior has no side dodge bash.

The offense is the bad part which very clearly sets them apart. Prior has a working offense and decent damage, conqueror has neither. The charged heavy is a bad joke, he can not feint, the chain bash never works, the softfeint bash is quite bad, and on live, the chain is reactable.

[Knight_Raime]

He definetely should get a second rework, along with centurion, nobushi, shinobi and highlander (and most assassins should get a buff as well). It is ridicoulous how many tools they designed for conqueror, with half of them completely failing to live up to expectations.

I think he now has the healthy amount of defense (the superior heavy should be unblockable, or he should just get a superior light as well). I think he has some tools which makes him superior over prior's defense, while Prior has some that evens the odds. Conq's fullblock is not necesssarily inferior to bulwark (for example, it shuts down zone optionselects very well), and Prior has no side dodge bash.

The offense is the bad part which very clearly sets them apart. Prior has a working offense and decent damage, conqueror has neither. The charged heavy is a bad joke, he can not feint, the chain bash never works, the softfeint bash is quite bad, and on live, the chain is reactable.

At this point I think it's more fair to say that conq=defensive oriented hero but BP=best general defense.

Conq's design is pretty questionable. In order for him to have the best defense in the game he'd have to be unhealthy. And he was for awhile. But now that BP has him pretty much beat for general defense it begs the question on what Conq should be doing. IMO while i've seen some people trying to suggest on how to give him better/unique defense again I think conq should get better/unique offense.

ATM all his defense options are:

~Zone
~Side dodge OS (was indirectly buffed with TG.)
~Instant start up with FB
~Using superior block in various ways with heavies/charged heavies (weaker now.)

He doesn't really need more defensive options. I still cling to the idea that they can some how make conq hold onto a charge of his UB charge heavy. And he really should get a standard feint for his normal heavies. Even if you could reliably flow into fullblock and use something from FB to stuff people trying to feint bait into GB it's still probably more stamina intensive than it ought to be for basic baiting. I really like the idea of his full block/flail upper cut thing. But Conq doesn't have the bait game to really support this imo.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

At this point I think it's more fair to say that conq=defensive oriented hero but BP=best general defense.

Conq's design is pretty questionable. In order for him to have the best defense in the game he'd have to be unhealthy. And he was for awhile. But now that BP has him pretty much beat for general defense it begs the question on what Conq should be doing. IMO while i've seen some people trying to suggest on how to give him better/unique defense again I think conq should get better/unique offense.

ATM all his defense options are:

~Zone
~Side dodge OS (was indirectly buffed with TG.)
~Instant start up with FB
~Using superior block in various ways with heavies/charged heavies (weaker now.)

He doesn't really need more defensive options. I still cling to the idea that they can some how make conq hold onto a charge of his UB charge heavy. And he really should get a standard feint for his normal heavies. Even if you could reliably flow into fullblock and use something from FB to stuff people trying to feint bait into GB it's still probably more stamina intensive than it ought to be for basic baiting. I really like the idea of his full block/flail upper cut thing. But Conq doesn't have the bait game to really support this imo.

I suggested many things for hím. Now, I would suggest the following:

1. He should be able to hardfeint besides the softfeint.
2. Chained top heavy should end the chain and should be unblockable
3. I say it for a long time: the charged heavy should be available from chain as well.
4. Finally, the shieldcrush should be a little harder to react- maybe with a faster animation, maybe with hiding more of the animation, because this softfeint and the chained bash is useless.

[Knight_Raime]

I suggested many things for hím. Now, I would suggest the following:

1. He should be able to hardfeint besides the softfeint.
2. Chained top heavy should end the chain and should be unblockable
3. I say it for a long time: the charged heavy should be available from chain as well.
4. Finally, the shieldcrush should be a little harder to react- maybe with a faster animation, maybe with hiding more of the animation, because this softfeint and the chained bash is useless.

I mean, interesting given he's an infinite chain person but why would I bother with a charged heavy to get an unblockable when I could always just light into top UB heavy?
I mean sure, we can add the ability to charge his mid chain heavies. But I don't think that would really make them any better considering they take 1000ms to do. You'd probably have to shorten the charge time mid chain significantly for that to work. And even then idk.

Shield uppercut is indeed bad. Aside from it being slow I think the other issue it has is poor tracking. (might also be the bash after a light or heavy. I forget their tracking and vulnerabilities.) It would probably need to be faster if it's meant to compliment UB heavy mix ups.

[Mtcmnkk]

If he had hyper armor that would be a good giant step. His bash throw distance is garbage. For how slow the bash is the oppo hero never gets thrown into a wall or off a ledge

[MCBooma16]

If he had hyper armor that would be a good giant step. His bash throw distance is garbage. For how slow the bash is the oppo hero never gets thrown into a wall or off a ledge

His chained bash is so slow and even sounds like it has some oomph to it, yet it hardly wallsplats.
As you could imagine, the chained bash works more on console, but once people catch on you're gonna get hurt.

[Mtcmnkk]

His chained bash is so slow and even sounds like it has some oomph to it, yet it hardly wallsplats.
As you could imagine, the chained bash works more on console, but once people catch on you're gonna get hurt.

You said it. His bash never wall splats which it should considering its so slow. You have to throw them to a wall heavy then get lucky with a bash for it to wallsplat for another heavy