Tier Mode and Hardcore Immersion Mode - Both force a certain play style | Forums

[SaviorBasedGod]

It's the god damn drones that ruin it.

[LaMOi]

I agree and too would prefer syringes offering a temporary buff or heal over time.

Health regen is infinite, never runs out. I hate it.

I myself was always fine with old school games and health packs/ medkits...


Health regen — It’s like having infinite ammo. Although that said it’s nearly impossible to run out of ammo in this game...


But like I said it’s a delicate balance. Resource management offer an illusion finite resources that makes the player believe their own careful management of the resources has meant they overcame said obstacle. When in reality, most games probably have enough resources for the player not to run out in a long time...
So why not make it health regen, with infinite ammo, why not make the crouch automatic when entering territory with enemies — why not have the game just play for you?
I mean you could argue a lot of the mechanics are essentially pointless if what you want is the straightest path between two points.

You could argue survival games are totally pointless - but I have really loved some of them (The Forest).

But, I suppose we like to feel that we are the ones doing m it — we’re controlling the experience. Even if in reality that in some games the resources might as well be infinite.

You see I really liked FC PRIMAL. On survivor mode, the only way you could heal was to eat meat. The only way to get meat really was to hunt.
Therefore when injured, not only did it create some wonderfully tense moments of retreat, hide, then hunt, all whilst avoiding dying, but it gave so much more purpose and meaning to the other mechanics in the game — such as hunting.

[ManticButton]

yeah my biggest beef with enabling all the hardcore options is that it limits you to stealth only and the games mission structure and outpost design makes this almost impossible in solo play
you can't cover every angle or path way or move every body by yourself and by limiting the player to only one play style it makes the game rather dull quickly

honestly I keep partial health regeneration on because with the drones who auto detect dead bodies and soak up damage like paper towels it evens things out I can't imagine beating the final splinter cell mission on extreme without partial health regeneration on

as for hud most of the technology does exist in one way or another or my character could just physically look down and asses what they have on them so I leave everything on except for detection clouds

[TacticoolDelta]

I hated the Tier Mode! I played it only because of the rewards and that was annoying. I like this Immersion Mode and I hope Ubi is constantly expanding the mode.
Hardcore gamer can go fully hardcore, and fun gamer like me can have fun...thats great.

[Virtual-Chris]

I agree and too would prefer syringes offering a temporary buff or heal over time.

Health regen is infinite, never runs out. I hate it.

I myself was always fine with old school games and health packs/ medkits...


Health regen — It’s like having infinite ammo. Although that said it’s nearly impossible to run out of ammo in this game...


But like I said it’s a delicate balance. Resource management offer an illusion finite resources that makes the player believe their own careful management of the resources has meant they overcame said obstacle. When in reality, most games probably have enough resources for the player not to run out in a long time...
So why not make it health regen, with infinite ammo, why not make the crouch automatic when entering territory with enemies — why not have the game just play for you?
I mean you could argue a lot of the mechanics are essentially pointless if what you want is the straightest path between two points.

You could argue survival games are totally pointless - but I have really loved some of them (The Forest).

But, I suppose we like to feel that we are the ones doing m it — we’re controlling the experience. Even if in reality that in some games the resources might as well be infinite.

You see I really liked FC PRIMAL. On survivor mode, the only way you could heal was to eat meat. The only way to get meat really was to hunt.
Therefore when injured, not only did it create some wonderfully tense moments of retreat, hide, then hunt, all whilst avoiding dying, but it gave so much more purpose and meaning to the other mechanics in the game — such as hunting.

I totally get what you’re saying. I played for awhile without using syringes before Immersive Mode (thus using the forced regen) and found that more to my style. It meant I was vulnerable for a few critical moments after getting shot where I had no choice but to take cover and get out of harms way. Although this could be leveraged numerous times, I’m not that bad of a player so it usually only happened a couple or few times taking a base. When immersion Mode came along, I switched off health regen and found myself getting killed by attrition. By the time I’m towards the end of the mission, my health is at dangerous levels... one shot and I’m dead and forced to play the whole thing over. So after that happened, I said f#ck that, and started using syringes. It was great because one quick button press and I was still in the fight. No need to take cover... just charge on. That reminded me why I stopped using syringes. To me, they are worse of a cheat than health regen. But the good thing is it doesn’t matter... we can both play how we want.

But I think many of us agree... no regen, no syringes, on hard difficulty forces a stealth or sniper play style. If you like that, it’s great. If you don’t, it sucks. And the mission designs and drones simply make those settings tedious to impossible.

yeah my biggest beef with enabling all the hardcore options is that it limits you to stealth only and the games mission structure and outpost design makes this almost impossible in solo play
you can't cover every angle or path way or move every body by yourself and by limiting the player to only one play style it makes the game rather dull quickly

honestly I keep partial health regeneration on because with the drones who auto detect dead bodies and soak up damage like paper towels it evens things out I can't imagine beating the final splinter cell mission on extreme without partial health regeneration on

as for hud most of the technology does exist in one way or another or my character could just physically look down and asses what they have on them so I leave everything on except for detection clouds

LOL at “paper towels”... I wish I had some of those in real life right now. For some stupid reason they’re in short supply.

But good post. Totally agree on how the hardcore settings limit you to stealth.

You’re right, the military does have ATAK for Android which is a battlefield management app that provides a mini map and allows them to mark hostiles. It’s usually mounted on the upper part of your plate carrier. I would feel justified using HUD tags with a squad, calling out and marking tangos, but I can’t justify it playing solo without comms or anything. I would use the mini map but find the enemy status indicator on the map a cheat I’d rather not have, so I turn it off.

[Maledicus]

I'm wondering if anyone else has backed off on hard-core immersion mode because it's impacting your fun factor.

Yes me.

When immersive mode was released i created a new character with the settings you described to have the real hardcore experience, i also disabled any warnings that enemy forces begin to detect me, also enemy markers. At some point i realised that the game isn't made for this. First the enemies feel to much like bullet sponges, more than with gearscore on. Second the enemies do not suffer from the same disadvantages like us players. While we have to fight more against injuries with every single shot then, stagger, can't use any other weapon than a handgun the enemies do not, on top of that Wolves appear magically and hunt you down. So what happens if we go full hardcore is .. all disadvantages are on the players side and the enemy forces stay like in gearscore mode or worse.

To me the solution is -- not only more realism applied to the player characters, the devs need to adjust enemy forces -- less bullet spongy, injuries after every single shot, more stagger. I think it could be fun then.

I decided to give immersive hardcore another try when they release the AI teammates, maybe this could help. I don't see me trying any of the bigger story missions and bases with immersive hardcore settings solo. At least i tried Walker with gearscore on, but all other settings to hardcore -- nearly impossible, with my best try i was able to kill three of his fantasy-drones and gave up after 7-10 deaths.

Best regards.

[Stenbern]

I'm wondering if anyone else has backed off on hard-core immersion mode because it's impacting your fun factor.

I did,I started a new character just to try out the immersive mode and all the different difficulty's.
What can I say I died alot,it's fun in the beginning on elite/extreme but I gave up it was not that fun after all.
Now I don't play GRBR anymore,will do that when new content arrives.started up GRWL a few day's ago and I'm doing the missions that came after I had completed the game.

[Hugo-FOU]

Yeah, very true.

One of the things I'm getting at with this thread, is that a lot of us, me included, want a more challenging and realistic game. But how challenging is too challenging? How realistic is too much?

I think when you drive up the settings to the point you're playing a style that you don't find fun, you've gone too far. That's what Tier Mode did to me. At first, I relished the added challenge. Then I started dying quickly and often. Then I adapted. Then I realized I was playing the game through the drone. That's what I'm getting at.

Hard-core Immersive Mode is great at first. Then you start dying and being a lot more careful. Then you realize you're not engaging enemies, you're popping targets from a distance and using more cheating magic items to compensate. The fix maybe worse than the problem after a point.

Fortunately, we have the ability to fine tune the settings to balance it for our own style. I would be curious if anyone who celebrates no health regen still uses syringes... because that makes no sense to me. And those that use neither health regen nor syringes may be falling Into this trap of changing their play style to the detriment of having fun.

I'm wondering if anyone else has backed off on hard-core immersion mode because it's impacting your fun factor.

I’m by no means a hardcore player, but I’ve been struggling to find the right balance. Injuries often is ok, but having syringes remove them feels like a cheat. But then health regen feels worse to me, even though as you say it’s very much the same thing.

One of the things that can make a semi hardcore experience fun is trying really hard to avoid detection, not because getting spotted means instant death, but because it means you’re going to get into a desperate gun fight!

It might not be classic ‘hardcore’, but surely fun is more important.

At present there doesn’t seem to be much middle ground between too easy, with enemies that aren’t alert enough plus minimal injuries that either heal themselves or are easily removed with syringes and too extreme, with enemies that are alert enough but deal too much damage so that getting injured means death always quickly follows.

This is why I think the injury system still needs some work. There is this great system where you can get an injury that impacts your ability to move, aim and eventually restricts you to using a pistol. Yet we never get to see it. We need to be able to restore our health, (temporarily), whilst keeping the injury effects.

As a side thought. Should hardcore be defined by others. Surely hardcore is whatever the individuals limit of ability is.

[LaMOi]

I totally get what you’re saying. I played for awhile without using syringes before Immersive Mode (thus using the forced regen) and found that more to my style. It meant I was vulnerable for a few critical moments after getting shot where I had no choice but to take cover and get out of harms way. Although this could be leveraged numerous times, I’m not that bad of a player so it usually only happened a couple or few times taking a base. When immersion Mode came along, I switched off health regen and found myself getting killed by attrition. By the time I’m towards the end of the mission, my health is at dangerous levels... one shot and I’m dead and forced to play the whole thing over. So after that happened, I said f#ck that, and started using syringes. It was great because one quick button press and I was still in the fight. No need to take cover... just charge on. That reminded me why I stopped using syringes. To me, they are worse of a cheat than health regen. But the good thing is it doesn’t matter... we can both play how we want.

But I think many of us agree... no regen, no syringes, on hard difficulty forces a stealth or sniper play style. If you like that, it’s great. If you don’t, it sucks. And the mission designs and drones simply make those settings tedious to impossible.

I haven’t really come into many issues on solo.... Yet.
But I’m naturally a stealthy player.
But that said I’m still on the early missions.

I suspect if there’s missions where you have to defend a point from waves of enemies — this would be nigh impossible on Immersive mode with the hard settings.

I am very much expecting that the missions were not designed to really be played solo.

I’ve come into this game with low expectations. And so far the game is alright. It has its moments but it’s not blowing me away.

[Virtual-Chris]

I haven’t really come into many issues on solo.... Yet.
But I’m naturally a stealthy player.
But that said I’m still on the early missions.

I suspect if there’s missions where you have to defend a point from waves of enemies — this would be nigh impossible on Immersive mode with the hard settings.

I am very much expecting that the missions were not designed to really be played solo.

I’ve come into this game with low expectations. And so far the game is alright. It has its moments but it’s not blowing me away.

I think you can play a lot of the game stealth except when drones are involved. Then you need to come up with ways to take them out quickly and ideally from range and then let the base cool down unless you want to play tag running around the base.

There are a few instances where you need to defend something, more in Faction Missions if I remember correctly but then you can just turn down the difficulty as they are stupid mission designs.