Think we should give up on Breakpoint and Just Update Wildlands instead. | Forums

[Kean_1]

The game not having PvP at launch didn't make the game unplayable.

As for the issues you described, I think part of the disconnect here is that you're talking about PC. Console didn't experience some of those problems you describe.

As for enemy AI behavior, that was never really improved so it remained the same throughout the life of the game. The way the enemy would be alerted to your position also didn't change. These were the mechanics of the game and while I agree they needed improvements, it was by design. ....but none of that made the game unplayable.

I never had randoms with cars flipping randomly though, exploding without cause, etc. ......and again, the hardware issues must have been a PC thing.

Either way, the game remained essentially unchanged with some minor bug fixing, additions of suggestions (like the HUD options in one of the first updates), DLC, etc. The core game is basically the same state Mike would have seen it in when he started playing. ....if on console at least.

I quit playing after about 8 months IIRC. .....played a little GW after that. When I recently started another play through, I didn't notice anything significantly changed. My whole point is, the state of the game didn't change as much as you describe. ......not considering additional content added that you would expect over time.

As far as PC, someone else would need to speak to that as I can only speak from the console perspective which didn't have the level of issues you mentioned. Maybe PC was a mess but again, I have no experience with that.

[SaviorBasedGod]

I played both games yesterday. This is not nostalgia talking....


I’m not shooting you down, do the video.

Some things are indeed better in Breakpoint — but I don’t think the cover system functions with the same degree of consistency or offers the same level of control.
Like I previously said once in cover I find your movement is very oversensitive so pushing up towards the corner or edge of the wall actually becomes quite difficult — I find I’m having to tap the analog stick, tap tap tap to shuffle up to the edge. It’s very finicky and if you over shoot you give away your position.

You try moving slowly whilst crouched up against a wall. You can’t.

hit detection on the scenery is also far less precise in Breakpoint. Plenty of times where I’ve tried to shoot somebody through an opening in the scenery — and it Justs hits some invisible wall. I find this is common certainly around bases in ghost recon breakpoint.

I can get behind the argument on the finicky movement when in cover, sometimes you move too fast, but my argument was mainly in the animations in movement, the player weight and overall gravity was altered in the Breakpoint to give the player a sense of realism (which I’ve argued before was a bad idea.), but I think that’s what you’re feeling as the latency and inconsistency in the overall movement. Wildlands has none of that in there, that’s why it feels snappier especially when changing directions. Animation wise however, Breakpoint shows more life and natural movement in the character except for the running pistol animation. From hunkering down in cover and having less odd animations when approaching and leaving cover this is seen apparent when you walk up the watch tower stairs in both games. Also Wildlands sported overall faster speeds in animations (excluding cover), when the player held prone, he went prone and again that delay in Breakpoint was due to the developer’s adding latency to add “weight”, they emphasized a lot on it on release. In fact the first update they toned it down but it’s still very apparent. This would be okay if there was a animation cancel button, but there isn’t you’re just a sitting duck for most of it, which is why I think it didn’t work. My belief is that Breakpoint while adding more realism to movement and animations such sliding down hills took away more control from the player and in turned made it not only unrealistic, but not player friendly. I think porting over the animations won’t be the death of movement as it won’t carry the weight, but will be the death of weapon holstering as that hasn’t been animated yet in breakpoint. I mean I’m pretty sure the magnetism of the cover system is coded separately as it relies on in game objects. As well as adjusting latency and animation speeds can be adjusted with minimal issues. I think even with your argument that Wildlands animations are okay we can all agree Breakpoint dive to probe feature would be nice, infact you can actually dive to cover and it has a nice animation to it. When crawling Breakpoint has a nice addition of making the legs a lot more engaged during the crawl as well as walking through deeper water has nice animation of keeping the gun above water. Theres a lot in Breakpoint that they improved in terms of how the character looks more alive if you exclude that “player weight” and latency they added.

[MikeWeeks]

yeah i mean if you consider no PvP at all unplayable then yes. When pvp was launched everyone had moved on. Calling in a mortar strike instantly gives away your position. Gun attachments didnt line up with actual optics. Those with RTX cards experienced crashes. Constant crashes in any case. Also vehicle control was absolutely terrible with random flip overs and explosions. Drone would go missing after dying in a vehicle. Random spawns of enemies, hive mind enemies that suddenly all knew where you were instantly. "unplayable" doesnt excuse the incredible number of bugs....sure I can "play" some of the worst games in history...doesnt mean they function as intended.

Pretty sad I have to define this to you in some sad attempt to defend it.

Also as you said...you picked it up over a year after launch.

Many bugs were found during beta....and not fixed at launch. Which side by side with this...the week long demo, not a beta...is a far worse offense.

POINT IS THEY GOT AWAY WITH IT ONCE AND DECIDED TO DO IT AGAIN RATHER THAN PUT OUT A FUNCTIONING GAME. We could do this all day, go back and forth....but the FACT is....this game is not an improvement over WL. Which for a 5 year difference in hardware progression is pretty hard to excuse.

Sure, iI could take the time to list every problem and short coming with this game...or you could read the forums of the infinitely growing list of problems this game has and see for yourself. We are not a bunch of haters....we are a bunch of loyal fans that see no improvement, growth, or development in this game from previous versions.

I have no idea why on Earth you'd think I was defending this game (Breakpoint).

PVP not available at Wildland's launch certainly didn't help, but quite clearly "everyone" had not "moved on" - unless you think there was no one playing pvp after it was launched.

The issue with those having brought RTX cards came well after launch. IIRC, that product line launched in mid-2019.

A number of issues described weren't really a mess, they were designed that way. Sure there are bugs in Wildlands, and many remain, but I certainly didn't get the impression whatsoever that at launch it was nearly as bad as what's been experienced with this game (Breakpoint).

Yes it's pretty sad that what was described as a mess at launch (Wildlands) really doesn't seem to be actually the case, especially when compared to this current mess of a game (Breakpoint).

Agree however, that indeed Breakpoint is not an improvement over Wildlands], and always have.

[SaviorBasedGod]

I played both games yesterday. This is not nostalgia talking....


I’m not shooting you down, do the video.

Some things are indeed better in Breakpoint — but I don’t think the cover system functions with the same degree of consistency or offers the same level of control.
Like I previously said once in cover I find your movement is very oversensitive so pushing up towards the corner or edge of the wall actually becomes quite difficult — I find I’m having to tap the analog stick, tap tap tap to shuffle up to the edge. It’s very finicky and if you over shoot you give away your position.

You try moving slowly whilst crouched up against a wall. You can’t.

hit detection on the scenery is also far less precise in Breakpoint. Plenty of times where I’ve tried to shoot somebody through an opening in the scenery — and it Justs hits some invisible wall. I find this is common certainly around bases in ghost recon breakpoint.

Isn't that just bugs?

[martbloke88]

Isn't that just bugs?

I'd probably say it's a bit of both bugs and a problem with the animations.

I however prefer BPs animations compared to WL. They could be improved in certain areas of course like the running with a pistol, but just feels so much more realistic than WL that when I went back to WL a few weeks ago, WL felt kinda arcadey.

I think the biggest issues with BP are the story and lack of anything around when you compare it to WL. I checked out your comparison videos just now and GRAW2, FS and WL had a good story to them whereas BP just seems dead.

That's why I kinda agree with you that if they ported BPs animations to WL as well as the improvements like the injury system, non-guided mode, bodies staying put, and the complete customisation we have with the HUD and game (which is immense in comparison imo), WL wouldn't just be great but it would be exceptional.

EDIT: forgot they should also implement the AI not knowing exactly where you are too as this is better in BP than WL.

[LaMOi]

I can get behind the argument on the finicky movement when in cover, sometimes you move too fast, but my argument was mainly in the animations in movement, the player weight and overall gravity was altered in the Breakpoint to give the player a sense of realism (which I’ve argued before was a bad idea.), but I think that’s what you’re feeling as the latency and inconsistency in the overall movement. Wildlands has none of that in there, that’s why it feels snappier especially when changing directions. Animation wise however, Breakpoint shows more life and natural movement in the character except for the running pistol animation. From hunkering down in cover and having less odd animations when approaching and leaving cover this is seen apparent when you walk up the watch tower stairs in both games. Also Wildlands sported overall faster speeds in animations (excluding cover), when the player held prone, he went prone and again that delay in Breakpoint was due to the developer’s adding latency to add “weight”, they emphasized a lot on it on release. In fact the first update they toned it down but it’s still very apparent. This would be okay if there was a animation cancel button, but there isn’t you’re just a sitting duck for most of it, which is why I think it didn’t work. My belief is that Breakpoint while adding more realism to movement and animations such sliding down hills took away more control from the player and in turned made it not only unrealistic, but not player friendly. I think porting over the animations won’t be the death of movement as it won’t carry the weight, but will be the death of weapon holstering as that hasn’t been animated yet in breakpoint. I mean I’m pretty sure the magnetism of the cover system is coded separately as it relies on in game objects. As well as adjusting latency and animation speeds can be adjusted with minimal issues. I think even with your argument that Wildlands animations are okay we can all agree Breakpoint dive to probe feature would be nice, infact you can actually dive to cover and it has a nice animation to it. When crawling Breakpoint has a nice addition of making the legs a lot more engaged during the crawl as well as walking through deeper water has nice animation of keeping the gun above water. Theres a lot in Breakpoint that they improved in terms of how the character looks more alive if you exclude that “player weight” and latency they added.

Ah now that’s a bit different. That not what I thought you were talking about earlier.

Ok — so just taking the animation quality and the transitions from one animation to another I would agree with you that Breakpoint has better animation. And more variation such as the example you mentioned in deep water.


And I understand that they went for trying to portray a sense of weight to the movement — and I like the idea at least. But I think the execution was fumbled because the controls often feel clunky — similar to RDR2.

So overall — I much prefer the control in WL’s and the cover system which worked consistently to what we have in Breakpoint.

I mean they even took this out...

https://youtu.be/__3vOQzjjrU



Such a simple thing. And it makes positioning yourself whilst prone needlessly finicky in Breakpoint...

[LaMOi]

The game not having PvP at launch didn't make the game unplayable.

As for the issues you described, I think part of the disconnect here is that you're talking about PC. Console didn't experience some of those problems you describe.

As for enemy AI behavior, that was never really improved so it remained the same throughout the life of the game. The way the enemy would be alerted to your position also didn't change. These were the mechanics of the game and while I agree they needed improvements, it was by design. ....but none of that made the game unplayable.

I never had randoms with cars flipping randomly though, exploding without cause, etc. ......and again, the hardware issues must have been a PC thing.

Either way, the game remained essentially unchanged with some minor bug fixing, additions of suggestions (like the HUD options in one of the first updates), DLC, etc. The core game is basically the same state Mike would have seen it in when he started playing. ....if on console at least.

I quit playing after about 8 months IIRC. .....played a little GW after that. When I recently started another play through, I didn't notice anything significantly changed. My whole point is, the state of the game didn't change as much as you describe. ......not considering additional content added that you would expect over time.

As far as PC, someone else would need to speak to that as I can only speak from the console perspective which didn't have the level of issues you mentioned. Maybe PC was a mess but again, I have no experience with that.

Agreed. I didn’t not think WL’s was significantly buggy — even from launch.

[recklessnico]

Did the launch of Ghost Recon Wildlands provoke:

- a major corporate change in editorial and management positions.
- the delay of 3 (or more) major AAA titles to the next fiscal year?
- an admission of terrible sales by the CEO himself, followed by investors call made publicly available?

If not then it was neither a mess or "broken at launch".

And I don't know, I wasn't there so if I'm wrong I"ll eat my words.