SOMM should have a radius just like Mecha Timmy | Forums

[Nousella]

I read some pages of the last topic, so, for those who say that there isn't anything to add with further discussion I take a point from there:
multiple times was mentioned that SOMM doesn't get nerfed because the community and devs seem to be fine with it, as if it is balanced.
Then it makes perfectly sense, even for new people on this forum, to keep opening posts and speak, even if is just to show that the community isn't happy with SOMM, to show that there is a large part that is just silence, not imply that gets along with it.

I do philosophy, I am used to overly reiterated defences and unsound but valid arguments, sometimes is not worth nor necessary to engage with them. SOMM is definitely op by the terms of this game and its usage is almost brainless, there isn't need to discuss each specific instance in which this is the case to make it more or less true, unless is for the sake of engaging with it.

sidenote: Reduce SOMM radius and make him cost 3 then it will be compared to same cost less strong cards. Is not written anywhere that he has to be op til the end of the game.

[camelchasers]

That's it. Only 2 ways to come at this card in defense. Use and not want nerfed, or cards in your deck to easily counter and not want nerfed. There isn't a third option.

Of course there is. That you genuinely think he’s ok.

This is why our debate never gets anywhere. You can’t get over the idea that nobody but yourself has access to logical, unbiased thought and that anyone who disagrees with you has an agenda and is trying to take advantage of an unfair situation. Why even bother trying to debate?

[Nousella]

I don't do philosophy, I do exact Sciences and I would theorize/speculate that people who let themselves be tempted to make harsh statements and unfounded claims like the ones made above has personal feelings against a card which is easily countered by several themes.

Good thing of philosophy is that I get to access the theories and the results of those spending years "on the field", limited to few projects during their careers, and put them together in the big picture made of the remaining disciplines. [Thanks monkeys] I don't like speculations as most philosophers do and it's all they can hope to do in their lives. If you do EXACT science, it means that science you don't neither know what is about. (Sorry if this sounds aggressive but the word exact is really wrong, perhaps you meant to use it within a contest..)

I didn't develop personal feelings against SOMM, in fact, as I said, I counter it quite well, is just the amount of times it is played, the fact you need to play the whole match ready to counter him, that you need to have in your deck, always, a bunch of counters, and its ability to suddenly break any game without much of requirements, that is uncommon to any other card. The thing with him is that is a noobs' card, much more than Dugies that most times involve a loss for the user. If anything I hate SOMM for being so faceroll that I can't allow myself to use my only lvl 3 legendary.
I can deal with OP things in a gacha game, especially if I can counter them. What I don't like is hypocrisy and denial of those saying that SOMM is balanced and fine. Say "I use SOMM because I am a faceroller and want to play skill less" than I am ok with it.

Every card has several counters, not every card does what SOMM does. Even DSR, as they say, the most meta defining card, is effective more or less depending on your opponent's deck and positioning.
I would really like to hear of any other card that is as devastating as SOMM and that can fit as 12th card in any deck without needing to build any strategy around it (but that if you do, aka Santa & Co, is twice as powerful)

Also on the sidenote bear in mind that there's a difference between legendary cards and epic/rares/common cards. Legendary cards ought to have some special OP-ness over epic rares & common cards

Let's pretend that there aren't many other crappy legendaries that disqualify that OUGHT you put there, I keep that in mind and still doesn't justify why SOMM is the only card with such an overwhelming capacity. Even between other legendaries SOMM is just in another league for the very well known reasons. It would be fine if the hierarchy of power really reflected rarity, in which case make SOMM (and perhaps few more) platinum tho.

[Nousella]

Of course there is. That you genuinely think he’s ok.

This is why our debate never gets anywhere. You can’t get over the idea that nobody but yourself has access to logical, unbiased thought and that anyone who disagrees with you has an agenda and is trying to take advantage of an unfair situation. Why even bother trying to debate?

I am really with you here but arguments and counter arguments have been given already. As two equal forces pushing for the devs' attention, hoping for them to intervene and clean up the mess as SOMM does. Seriously, as there are no reasons to argue with religious people, we still can hope to show the devs that the community isn't happy with this card.
The fact I don't feel like using SOMM (as Dugies) because to me feels dishonest as de-ranking remains as my laughters to those that still loose using the most facerolling card.

[camelchasers]

I don’t know man... sounds like you have a lot of personal feelings about SOMM. Phrases like “noobs’ card”, “I use SOMM because I am a face roller and want to play skill less” are super charged with your emotions and are quite opposite the level of argumentation I’d expect from someone bragging about his background in philosophy. Precious few facts man... lots of emotion and lashing out.

The real question is, why can’t you counter him? What are you running as your main deck? The tier list puts him on par with a number of other legendaries and the factual play data (publicly available!) show he’s not topping the boards. The facts just don’t fit the hype you’re selling. He has many counters and, while powerful for sure, isn’t dominating. What are you running that makes him such an issue?

[dannyb1022]

The real question is, why can’t you counter him? What are you running as your main deck? The tier list puts him on par with a number of other legendaries and the factual play data (publicly available!) show he’s not topping the boards. The facts just don’t fit the hype you’re selling. He has many counters and, while powerful for sure, isn’t dominating. What are you running that makes him such an issue?

I went over this, in depth, in the other thread. You continue to ask people why they can't counter him, yet when I ask you how you CAN counter him, you say you don't feel like compiling a small list of some times he appears and how you deal with it.

The problem is that there are only mid teens of cards that can deal with SOMM as a viable counter. RNG coming into play (HHC/Imp Tweek) brings that number down. Body blocking or anti-counters (such as lightning a DKC or Herc) bring that number down more. I want a fun off-meta deck that is still viable. With SOMM in the picture, I have to have at least 2 possible counter cards at all times just in case this card comes up, just like Nousella said.

Yes I can play big strong high HP units in the back and slow down my use of energy if I don't have a counter on hand. But the problem is that, yet again, you aren't JUST worrying about SOMM. He is not the only card in the deck. And an even SEMI-smart player will have more of a plan than just use SOMM and use his power instantly as soon as it's ready. They aren't stupid enough to use it when you throw a tank in the back because you don't have a counter on hand.

Still you refuse to give me some examples. Maybe I've been playing wrong on all 3 accounts that are now 19, 20, and 21 where the only time I can semi-consistently counter SOMM is with PB (outside of the times it gets purified).

Getting rid of SOMM requires MAXIMUM EFFORT. It is not a guaranteed loss when I can't counter his attack, but when he is 4 and I have to deal with other 4 legendaries at the same time, there is no hope. My lightning doesn't even take out a level 4 when I put it in my deck because I like to play without that frequently used crutch card. When I lightning a level 3 SOMM, I gain nothing. I just used 4 energy to take out their 4 energy for an even trade because that's all I can do in that situation.

Also, btw, do you really think there are people who struggle to consistently counter SOMM and also don't use him who believe he is balanced? Maybe I'm the only @sshole that thinks that doesn't make logical sense, but I don't believe that third category exists that actively defends the card.

[camelchasers]

Mid teens is a huge number of counters, and that’s only searching for things that kill him before first charge. And like you said, a tank can eat a charge and then you overwhelm him. Works as well. I’ve given you so many examples by now, I’ve lost count. You just dismiss them all.

And yes, come on over to discord. We’re having a discussion this evening that includes people who are in EXACTLY the camp you believe can’t exist.

But again, why do you want to keep reopening this discussion?

[Nousella]

I don’t know man... sounds like you have a lot of personal feelings about SOMM. Phrases like “noobs’ card”, “I use SOMM because I am a face roller and want to play skill less” are super charged with your emotions and are quite opposite the level of argumentation I’d expect from someone bragging about his background in philosophy. Precious few facts man... lots of emotion and lashing out.

The real question is, why can’t you counter him? What are you running as your main deck? The tier list puts him on par with a number of other legendaries and the factual play data (publicly available!) show he’s not topping the boards. The facts just don’t fit the hype you’re selling. He has many counters and, while powerful for sure, isn’t dominating. What are you running that makes him such an issue?

As said, there is plenty of discussion already on the topic, I said why there isn't a card that compare with SOMM. I am not bragging about anything but saying that I am used to see unsound but valid arguments, as this seems to me the case. This cause cannot be won with arguments but, maybe, with numbers.

I can counter him (as I wrote 2 or 3 times already). I could even use him as he is my only level 3 legendary but I don't, because feels like face rolling. My main deck is sci-fii/super heroes and most often I win vs SOMM users, that's not my problem but the denial of reality, that this card as no equal in this game. The fact that SOMM is not topping the board does not surprise me, the data that would really matter to my point is: how many teams have in-built strategy specifically against SOMM and how many other single cards force you to include in your deck their counters

If you ask me I don't hate SOMM, I suffer Arrowstorm, PocaRandy or MBP more than I suffer him. I consider them strong and especially strong vs my main deck, but I don't consider them so advantageous over the game mechanics as SOMM is, he might not affect my game as much as them, but I recognise that he is sort of a jolly for whoever doesn't want put much effort in creating a deck or playing smart (as is said of Dugies).

It is kinda conflicting that you want changes to be made to, in your words a noobs' card, but at the same time recognize that it involves a loss for the noob user most times. This kind of inconsistency really doesn't add up to your credibilty into this discussion imo.

A misunderstanding here, is the use of Dugies that, most often and in my experience, involves a loss for the user (mind control, chomper, assassins, ..), yet Dugies are considered unskilled units and those who play them, noobs or faceroller. Is in this contest that I define the use of SOMM as even more faceroll or noob than Dugies, because play him is almost never a penalty and is your opponent that either loses in energy or field advantage.

[ScottOld]

you mean other then the penalties opf having him bolted, and nullified by 2 cost cards?

while dougie survives assassins, SER

[dannyb1022]

Is in this contest that I define the use of SOMM as even more faceroll or noob than Dugies, because play him is almost never a penalty and is your opponent that either loses in energy or field advantage.

Precisely. You have to deal with him or you lose. You can not take multiple hits from him without suffering insurmountable losses. I've brought it up before many times, that he is a card you must use energy on immediately before his power goes off. Enforcer does nothing while he is charged fully/in the back body blocked by Santa.

Players who use him do anything to get that power off, because they know it will tip the scale generously in their favor if it does a MAJORITY of the time. Even if there is an Inuit on the board, it will still be energy efficient to use his power and take away the 3 costs card for the loss of SOMM, only if there is at least 1 energy worth elsewhere on the board.

When there is a level 4 MBP followed by a level 4 Dusa and then out comes the level 4 SOMM, unless you have CM you are screwed. The MBP will get Poped if hard removed, and that is 9 energy you would need to have at the ready. Any defense you built will be destroyed because SOMM comes out, behind units where the only option is an RNG play or PB. Hoping the opponent doesn't have purify, there is still a 4 MBP, Pope Timmy, a Dusa, and a SOMM coming towards you, which you would have even less energy to use to defend because of using PB, and MBP is no joke now. He will eat you alive.

This is just one example, but there are many many many SOMM plays built to where even if RNG is on your side there is nothing you can do. The scales of power are immeasurable. Give him a range and a play such as this might be defendable. There isn't a single card where you can so strategically build around, because instead of there being in the teens of the 160+ cards in the game, you could use virtually ANY card to defend and counter ANYTHING (minus the flying vs walking cards). It's so sad that this is the case. I really want SOMM to be a strategic card. Not a "so overpowered you can play any time and almost virtually guarantee at least an even trade of energy" card. I mean... Mecha is a pain in the @ss but at least he doesn't mind control every opponents card at once. Can you imagine? That is the kind of power we are talking about.