Still waiting for revenge's 'insurance policy' feature to be removed | Forums

[Qoissant]

Maybe reread my original post Canadian, and don't be so hard headed.

It has nothing to do with personal opinion, it's how the game functions. If you gank my 1v1, and I watch you feed them revenge, I'm leaving so you can deal with it. If I gank, and I'm not a character with a bash, or something to guarantee a stagger, and I'm not on comms so I can't tell them when I'm guard breaking, then I'm going to faint attacks to throw off their defense, so my teammate, who they're locked on to, can finish the kill.

Just messing around playing warlord, with my friend (who's new) so I'm in low elo games, I would go to 1v4 because I can defend so hard not just because I'm warlord, but because they would feed me revenge, they'd take chip damage from me, giving more than enough time for my team to come clean up. Proving, that in most, not all, low elo games, they're too thirsty for the kill, giving revenge like it's candy.

Like I said, it's not the game, it's the players.

Also you said varying heros, and health of heros, contributes to making revenge bad.... Ok so let's just take every character out except warden. Let's make it a chivalry simulation game. No, it's a video game, with moving masks, wings, fire, etc etc, so accept that one skilled player can 1v2 or 1v3 players who have no idea how to gank period.

First off, I wasn't necessarily talking to you, I was talking to alustar. But, it sounds like you don't understand what i said anyways.

No, it is an opinion. This game could take many directions from where it is right now, some small or some big ones. Everyone wants their own ideas implemented in the game, and there is no one right way to do anything. The devs just have to find either the most common idea or the least outrageous idea so the rest of the community just accepts it. The devs had their idea for the game and it was not well received so now they take more from the community to reach a fair middle ground.

I am well aware of how bad the low elo players are, especially after switching from console to PC and having to work my way back up to the top again. But, this post is not about revenge feed, it is very specifically the duration of which you can have the revenge meter filled and not commit to using it.

I have no idea what you are talking about here. Some heroes have massively over-tuned OOS punishes that can be used with revenge to cause way too much damage. Also, having around a 40hp difference between two heroes is just disgusting and this is a popular consensus in the community. Standardizing the damage on parry, OOS, and GB punishes as well as attack damage in general is nowhere close to the game you are describing.

Like i said, my issue here will end up getting indirectly fixed whenever the drop the attack speed/damage/stamina overhaul. Revenge will be more common and revenge punishes won't be through the roof so revenge activation won't be as much of a threat.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

First off, I wasn't necessarily talking to you, I was talking to alustar. But, it sounds like you don't understand what i said anyways.

No, it is an opinion. This game could take many directions from where it is right now, some small or some big ones. Everyone wants their own ideas implemented in the game, and there is no one right way to do anything. The devs just have to find either the most common idea or the least outrageous idea so the rest of the community just accepts it. The devs had their idea for the game and it was not well received so now they take more from the community to reach a fair middle ground.

I am well aware of how bad the low elo players are, especially after switching from console to PC and having to work my way back up to the top again. But, this post is not about revenge feed, it is very specifically the duration of which you can have the revenge meter filled and not commit to using it.

I have no idea what you are talking about here. Some heroes have massively over-tuned OOS punishes that can be used with revenge to cause way too much damage. Also, having around a 40hp difference between two heroes is just disgusting and this is a popular consensus in the community. Standardizing the damage on parry, OOS, and GB punishes as well as attack damage in general is nowhere close to the game you are describing.

Like i said, my issue here will end up getting indirectly fixed whenever the drop the attack speed/damage/stamina overhaul. Revenge will be more common and revenge punishes won't be through the roof so revenge activation won't be as much of a threat.

Once revenge is activated, most competent gankers can just back away, and safely finish off the opponent without going near to them. Once a revenge bar is filled, the ganked player has very low hp, so their revenge bar is literally what keeps them alive, once it's off, they will be bashed to death. I don't think letting someone keep that is that broken, especially since it is quite easy to bait out the revenge activation- you don't have to die or even hurt for that, you just have to make attacks that are believable (if someone has low hp, they will likely not take the risk of dying and take the bait).

Ganking, deathballing is an especially common tactic, you can find entire teams of hard hitter, high hp heavies and hybrids just running around and killing everyone, sometimes without even using brain cells, because just dropping heavies, bashes and guardbreaks randomly makes the ganked person's survival extremely unlikely. If they ever nerf/remove revenge, at least they should introduce 100% friendly fire.

[atac56]

i think revenge should activate immediately when the meter is full. this should fix the issue of it sometimes not activating when pressing the button as well as preventing players from using it as an insurance policy as OP described, because that's exactly what its turned into.

only in For Honor can a sole player expect to win a 1v4 scenario and the 4 players get blamed for bad teamwork.

[Qoissant]

Once revenge is activated, most competent gankers can just back away, and safely finish off the opponent without going near to them. Once a revenge bar is filled, the ganked player has very low hp, so their revenge bar is literally what keeps them alive, once it's off, they will be bashed to death. I don't think letting someone keep that is that broken, especially since it is quite easy to bait out the revenge activation- you don't have to die or even hurt for that, you just have to make attacks that are believable (if someone has low hp, they will likely not take the risk of dying and take the bait).

Ganking, deathballing is an especially common tactic, you can find entire teams of hard hitter, high hp heavies and hybrids just running around and killing everyone, sometimes without even using brain cells, because just dropping heavies, bashes and guardbreaks randomly makes the ganked person's survival extremely unlikely. If they ever nerf/remove revenge, at least they should introduce 100% friendly fire.

I mean, I do understand that and make use of it myself, I just think it could be a way to very lightly nerf revenge, people are not using revenge threats for more than 10 seconds per acquisition anyways. As I said, I am pretty biased to the idea of no revenge and instead have the anti-damage stack mechanic get polished. This way you just take less damage in ganks so you can still stall as effectively but you would have a harder time succeeding in an actual win without backup.

I am also all for 100% friendly fire, especially on feats. I hate nothing more than watching a team beat the crap out of each-other trying to kill me but there's no repercussion for lack of awareness.

[iadvisoryi]

Revenge has been nerfed enough lol.

[Erhanninja]

We all know how the revenge works and even Reps and Devs know revenge is inconsistent they also mentioned here.

How inconsistent? Let me tell you how it works for me when I play Nobu. I have hundreds of examples ganked. I get ganked by 3 people for good 5 min. Attacks bashes GB knockdown everything there. I die in the end when I check my revenge meter its literally nothing there not even quarter. I see 2 people fighting I only throw one heavy one heavy only no blocked attack no GB no kick and he gets revenge.or I ser people getting revenge by 2 parries nothing else. Or we land every single attack without any block or GB and he gets revenge before dying. Now how is this consistent? If you are playing Nobu or Orochi basically heroes that has no UB no bash (kick gives massive revenge mostly doesnt land even if it lands just bleed no point) you have no choice but to give revenge. I dont have punch like Jorg punch 2 times knock down 50 damage and gank without giving revenge or HL kick like 40 damage. Everytime playing as Nobu with ganking I feel like I'm wasting time there because there is nothing I can do without any opener or UB.

Coming to topic of giving revenge over and over. Revenge wears off and he gets another revenge literally instantly. Is this really okay? What are we supposed to do? Not attack during revenge?

Some heroes gets revenge rapidly like I see Jorg or Shaman.

I can expand this all day. Revenge isn't consistent at all.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

We all know how the revenge works and even Reps and Devs know revenge is inconsistent they also mentioned here.

How inconsistent? Let me tell you how it works for me when I play Nobu. I have hundreds of examples ganked. I get ganked by 3 people for good 5 min. Attacks bashes GB knockdown everything there. I die in the end when I check my revenge meter its literally nothing there not even quarter. I see 2 people fighting I only throw one heavy one heavy only no blocked attack no GB no kick and he gets revenge.or I ser people getting revenge by 2 parries nothing else. Or we land every single attack without any block or GB and he gets revenge before dying. Now how is this consistent? If you are playing Nobu or Orochi basically heroes that has no UB no bash (kick gives massive revenge mostly doesnt land even if it lands just bleed no point) you have no choice but to give revenge. I dont have punch like Jorg punch 2 times knock down 50 damage and gank without giving revenge or HL kick like 40 damage. Everytime playing as Nobu with ganking I feel like I'm wasting time there because there is nothing I can do without any opener or UB.

Coming to topic of giving revenge over and over. Revenge wears off and he gets another revenge literally instantly. Is this really okay? What are we supposed to do? Not attack during revenge?

Some heroes gets revenge rapidly like I see Jorg or Shaman.

I can expand this all day. Revenge isn't consistent at all.

Actually, I think it is somewhat consistent. There might be someone with more technical knowledge about it, but as far as I know, revenge gain uses a tag system.

As soon as you attack, guardbreak or do anything, you will be considered an active combatant, and from that point, all attacks feed more revenge, with more gankers, even more. If one of the attackers takes a break, this lessens over time, but if they keep throwing attacks, they will fill the revenge bar almost instantly.

Some things give far more revenge than others. For example, parrying an external attack gives very high revenge, a bash gives more than usual, while a blocked attack or an attack that hits gives less. I think certain feats give high revenge as well. If I am correct, hp also affects this, the lower your max hp is, the faster you get revenge (nobu, like all low hp characters, should get her revenge sooner than a warlord).

I think you don't gain revenge that well because your opponents feed you less than you and your team mates feed your opponents. For example, they probably take that few seconds off before they keep attacking again, and go for more likely hits.

I think it is not a problem that not all characters have good ganking potentials. While Jormungandr is indeed an insanely good ganker, he is a weak cleaner, very bad duelist, has low range, and while he has good stalling skills, he does not gain too much from revenge (unless someone lets themselves knock down upon activation, in which case, it is a 65 damage slam). If you play Nobu, than your main role should be cleaning and keeping the minion zone. I

f you are absolutely forced to gank, stand by the opponent, start feinting attacks, and if you think he/she will target switch for you, parry him. Unless you have a very good opportunity to confirm death or a very big chunk of his health, don't attack him. Feinted attacks cost zero revenge, but someone being there, ready to kill you as soon as you open yourself up, and having zero trust in your indicators should secure the other player a pretty quick kill. I usually do this with my pk if I absolutely have to help in a gank, so it is obviously not the job of said character.

[Alustar.exe]

Maybe reread my original post Canadian, and don't be so hard headed.

It has nothing to do with personal opinion, it's how the game functions. If you gank my 1v1, and I watch you feed them revenge, I'm leaving so you can deal with it. If I gank, and I'm not a character with a bash, or something to guarantee a stagger, and I'm not on comms so I can't tell them when I'm guard breaking, then I'm going to faint attacks to throw off their defense, so my teammate, who they're locked on to, can finish the kill.

Just messing around playing warlord, with my friend (who's new) so I'm in low elo games, I would go to 1v4 because I can defend so hard not just because I'm warlord, but because they would feed me revenge, they'd take chip damage from me, giving more than enough time for my team to come clean up. Proving, that in most, not all, low elo games, they're too thirsty for the kill, giving revenge like it's candy.

Like I said, it's not the game, it's the players.

Also you said varying heros, and health of heros, contributes to making revenge bad.... Ok so let's just take every character out except warden. Let's make it a chivalry simulation game. No, it's a video game, with moving masks, wings, fire, etc etc, so accept that one skilled player can 1v2 or 1v3 players who have no idea how to gank period.

Yeah, he never reads any posts. Look at his response to my post in this thread and it's clear he's arguing with me about stuff I never even said XD dude is touch in the head something fierce.

[Qoissant]

Yeah, he never reads any posts. Look at his response to my post in this thread and it's clear he's arguing with me about stuff I never even said XD dude is touch in the head something fierce.

You're right, I can't argue you because 90% of the content in your posts just belittlement and rage. If you actually presented your issues correctly then I could discuss with you.

[Alustar.exe]

You're right, I can't argue you because 90% of the content in your posts just belittlement and rage. If you actually presented your issues correctly then I could discuss with you.

Lol, no the reason you couldn't bother reading is because your incapable of doing so. You can't fathom the other person's argument, you are incapable of seeing past your own echo chamber, and you refuse to step outside your pathetic little box.

The fact of the matter is, I don't bother engaging you at any level other than what I'm at right now, because time has shown me that you are incapable of having any type of intelligent discourse with anyone. Your postings here are proof of that.

But go on, tell me more about how deeply you have peered into my soul that you know me so well. Or your could, you know, try not engaging a Superior, you nub.