Changes, which will make Black Prior not imbalanced | Forums

[mercyle5.Space]

Hi! IMHO, Black Prior is kinda OP because of his wide moveset and nice combos. I'm convinced that this character must be reworked, and here is what I think. Only one of my changes are required.
1. Nerf Bulwark counter damage. Make it consume way more stamina. High risk - high reward.
2. I think that Horizon Spin should be a little bit slower/be an attack, which makes it able to parry, but instead make it be able to cancel. BP should have smaller choice to initiate offence.
3. Or make his light attacks a little bit longer. I know these attacks are reactable, but only if you are waiting for all of them. But I guess it is really hard to block them due to a huge amount of other possible attacks.

I've done a lot of editings because you guys said a lot of right things.

UPD: Somebody said a great thing, BP is kinda imbalanced because of uselessness of other heroes. Ubi shall better rework Centurion/Orochi or even Valkyrie. Thanks to everybody who criticized me, it made this post more reasonable.

[Jarlander_]

Hi! IMHO, Black Prior is kinda OP because of his wide moveset and nice combos. I'm convinced that this character must be reworked, and here is what I think.
1. Nerf Bulwark counter damage. This thing is pretty imbalanced in breach/dominion. AFAIR it deals 30 damage, which is A LOT. I think it should be nerfed to 15 dmg or like that. Or make it consume way more stamina. High risk - high reward.
2. I think that Horizon Spin should not be unblockable. Prior is already rich of unblockable attacks. I consider Horizon Spin as pretty fast attack, so making it unlockable is kinda overpowered. I don't know if this attack will remain viable. Maybe it shouldn't chain into light attack.
3. Make his light attacks a little bit longer. I know these attacks are reactable, but only if you are waiting for all of them. But I guess it is really hard to block them due to a huge amount of other possible attacks.

They just have to make Bulwark only knock over one person and receive blockage damages from other players who hit too.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

Hi! IMHO, Black Prior is kinda OP because of his wide moveset and nice combos. I'm convinced that this character must be reworked, and here is what I think.
1. Nerf Bulwark counter damage. This thing is pretty imbalanced in breach/dominion. AFAIR it deals 30 damage, which is A LOT. I think it should be nerfed to 15 dmg or like that. Or make it consume way more stamina. High risk - high reward.
2. I think that Horizon Spin should not be unblockable. Prior is already rich of unblockable attacks. I consider Horizon Spin as pretty fast attack, so making it unlockable is kinda overpowered. I don't know if this attack will remain viable. Maybe it shouldn't chain into light attack.
3. Make his light attacks a little bit longer. I know these attacks are reactable, but only if you are waiting for all of them. But I guess it is really hard to block them due to a huge amount of other possible attacks.

Black Prior is already balanced. Also, his lights are all 500ms, so my condolances if you think they are too fast. What exactly would be the Bulwark Slash's purpose if it would be blockable? Wasing stamina? You could just ask the devs to outright remove him from the game, it would basically do.

[Knight_Raime]

Hi! IMHO, Black Prior is kinda OP because of his wide moveset and nice combos. I'm convinced that this character must be reworked, and here is what I think.
1. Nerf Bulwark counter damage. This thing is pretty imbalanced in breach/dominion. AFAIR it deals 30 damage, which is A LOT. I think it should be nerfed to 15 dmg or like that. Or make it consume way more stamina. High risk - high reward.
2. I think that Horizon Spin should not be unblockable. Prior is already rich of unblockable attacks. I consider Horizon Spin as pretty fast attack, so making it unlockable is kinda overpowered. I don't know if this attack will remain viable. Maybe it shouldn't chain into light attack.
3. Make his light attacks a little bit longer. I know these attacks are reactable, but only if you are waiting for all of them. But I guess it is really hard to block them due to a huge amount of other possible attacks.

1)Yes let's make an attack that's countered via gb which nets everyone a heavy only get a light attacks worth of damage. Good idea.
2)His zone is 700ms. That is not fast. And it's very visually distinct compared to his other bash. It chaining to anything doesn't save how reactable it is.
3)Sure. Lets make them slower. Cause people will totally love dealing with bash only priors more.

BP can receive some adjustments. But none of yours. 2 of the 3 are literally just your own issues that you could easily overcome if you practiced at the game to any decent amount.

They just have to make Bulwark only knock over one person and receive blockage damages from other players who hit too.

Hecking stellar idea my guy. Let's remove the function to flip multiple gankers to a character that was designed to deal with multiple players.

While we're at it let's remove caber toss's ability to knock over someone and instead only let it do minor damage.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

1)Yes let's make an attack that's countered via gb which nets everyone a heavy only get a light attacks worth of damage. Good idea.
2)His zone is 700ms. That is not fast. And it's very visually distinct compared to his other bash. It chaining to anything doesn't save how reactable it is.
3)Sure. Lets make them slower. Cause people will totally love dealing with bash only priors more.

BP can receive some adjustments. But none of yours. 2 of the 3 are literally just your own issues that you could easily overcome if you practiced at the game to any decent amount.



Hecking stellar idea my guy. Let's remove the function to flip multiple gankers to a character that was designed to deal with multiple players.

While we're at it let's remove caber toss's ability to knock over someone and instead only let it do minor damage.

I don't understand people's problem with the Bulwark Counter flipping multiple opponents. You basically lose 100 hp in a gank instantly if nobody hits your Bulwark Counter, because you are either guardbroken instantly, or you will be hit by multiple heavies. Or you die instantly if there is a Shaman or Centurion around. Of course, in public matches, there are always one noob in your team who just keeps throwing external lights and very obvious heavies as an external attacker, and a moderately skilled bp will easily deal with that.


Black Prior is in an absolutely fair state, against most characters, all his moves are punishable (there is one move that is not if you don't have a dodge attack), his feats have fair drawbacks. He is a strong hero, but I don't think he should be touched now. Literally everyone else need attention before him, either in the form of nerfs, reworks or buffs.

[iadvisoryi]

I honestly couldn't take the original post serious. Id think people on the forum would try training and practicing first before they come to write a non sensible article as to why a character needs to be changed. There are so many more hero's that need the attention. Not prior

[The_Sentinel_]

BP is a balanced hero. I think you just need to practise more on how to deal with him.
bulwark counter cam easily be heavy into feint GB, it's only fair that it does 30 damage because the opponent gets free GB on the failed attempt. if you reduce damage to 15 then it should no longer guarantee a GB on fail

[mercyle5.Space]

Black Prior is already balanced. Also, his lights are all 500ms, so my condolances if you think they are too fast. What exactly would be the Bulwark Slash's purpose if it would be blockable? Wasing stamina? You could just ask the devs to outright remove him from the game, it would basically do.

Please read my post again, I've edited it. I just find BP pretty hard to avoid because of his rich moveset. He as a lot of opportunities to start an attack. Most of this opportunities are hard-to-react (but still reactable), but a huge choice makes it nearly impossible to react.

[mercyle5.Space]

1)Yes let's make an attack that's countered via gb which nets everyone a heavy only get a light attacks worth of damage. Good idea.
2)His zone is 700ms. That is not fast. And it's very visually distinct compared to his other bash. It chaining to anything doesn't save how reactable it is.
3)Sure. Lets make them slower. Cause people will totally love dealing with bash only priors more.

BP can receive some adjustments. But none of yours. 2 of the 3 are literally just your own issues that you could easily overcome if you practiced at the game to any decent amount.



Hecking stellar idea my guy. Let's remove the function to flip multiple gankers to a character that was designed to deal with multiple players.

While we're at it let's remove caber toss's ability to knock over someone and instead only let it do minor damage.

Please read my post again, because I've added some changes in it.
Lemme know what you think.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

Hi! IMHO, Black Prior is kinda OP because of his wide moveset and nice combos. I'm convinced that this character must be reworked, and here is what I think. Only one of my changes are required.
1. Nerf Bulwark counter damage. Make it consume way more stamina. High risk - high reward.
2. I think that Horizon Spin should be a little bit slower/be an attack, which makes it able to parry, but instead make it be able to cancel. BP should have smaller choice to initiate offence.
3. Or make his light attacks a little bit longer. I know these attacks are reactable, but only if you are waiting for all of them. But I guess it is really hard to block them due to a huge amount of other possible attacks.

I've done a lot of editings because you guys said a lot of right things.

UPD: Somebody said a great thing, BP is kinda imbalanced because of uselessness of other heroes. Ubi shall better rework Centurion/Orochi or even Valkyrie. Thanks to everybody who criticized me, it made this post more reasonable.

Okay, I go over the modified points. I disagree with all of them, but they have more sense now I think.


1. I killed 3 bps yesterday with my Jormungandr just because their Bulwark Counter put them out of stamina. Which half of the times means they go to the ground. In a normal gank, losing your stamina is one of the worst things that can happen (especially if they are intelligent and do not feed revenge). Also, you have to understand how different this attack is from, let's say, Warlord's fullblock. The Black Prior may enter and exit fullblock willingly with relative safety, but he must make a read to attempt a counter- if he is read, or the attack is charged differently in the case of a Shugoki or Hitokiri, or even if the opponent simply canceled it, he will always be punished. Warlord, on the other hand, gets into fullblock, may leave it anytime and instantly light, and if anything hits the guard during it, he gets damage in. They have a very different risk, so it is natural their reward is different as well. Bulwark Counters are hard to pull off, I don't think anything should be changed (the only thing that might be a bit unfair is getting a Bulwark Counter on reaction for blocking the first hit from Berserker and Shaman zone, but I don't know what can be done with it. And in return, they beat superior lights since their consecutive hit comes faster than the superior light hitting, so I think it is fair trade off).

2. It is already extremely slow. Unless you were hit by a heavy or blocked a heavy before they start it up, you should be able to light attack them out. Also, depending on your character choice, you can make it very hard for the bp to mix you up with it, if you have access to a great optionselect (you mentioned Orochi, he has such optionselect, though overusing it obviously hurts). Making it any slower, would really mean that you can reaction light him all the time, forcing him to only use it against exhausted opponents and rely only on bashes for the normal offense. It also deals 30 damage only. I think other than the damage, it literally has the same properties as Lawbringer heavy finishers.

3. Slowing down any light attacks is a terrible choice, which would make them totally useless in neutral (Highlander has such light openers, and he spends the entire game backing away in order to miss them on purpose). Yes, you can't react to them all the time if you must look out for all the other options, especially with a reflex guard hero, but if you decide you will actively concentrate on a light attack and countering it, you will find it easy to counter (of course, if it is an other attack, not a light, you will likely be punished, but this is why you must read your opponents).

For practice, set up a bot in training ground to get the timing down, and make a BP spam lights at you. Also, you may want to check your own hero's spacing abilities- BP controls the space he is in, around 5 meters before him and on his right, 2 meters on his left, a minimal space behind him. Like most heavy heroes, BP is very good at this, keeping a small space around themselves. However, they are not very mobile, he has one very telegraphed gap closer, his attack has medium range, his normal bashes have short range, his zone has a bit bigger but it is slow. If you look for this, you not just limit his options to attack you, you can also tell better when he will do something (until he adapts).


Of course I can not dispute the truthfulness in your last lines. Prior feels strong because many others are very weak, like the three heroes you mentioned. You have to work harder if you pick any of them, but you would have just as hard time against a Shaman, Gladiator, Warlord, Warden, Hitokiri, or even against a Tiandi. In an ideal state, all heroes should have the same strenghts, but since it is very far from ideal, I suggest you to try to find a viable main. I repped an extremely weak hero up to 70, it is a very unsatisfying experience.