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  1. #11
    Originally Posted by InfamousClub Go to original post
    Going to be hard to create build diversity, it’s just not there. Of coarse weakening the gloves and knee pads will make some other talents viable. The problem is the other combos are average to begin with.
    I think next week's "State of the Game" (where one of the devs is supposed to talk about balancing, if I understood correctly) may shed more light on that. But yes, I agree that achieving build diversity is not an easy task. I'd just like to take a look at more of these upcoming changes before coming to a conclusion of whether they are mainly good or bad.

    Originally Posted by Traxsc Go to original post
    So now we all get a build diversity of crap builds. I'm ok if you want to nerf those specific pieces of gear and at the same time adjust enemy AI health/armor. But by only nerfing specific high damage armor pieces then this results in an even greater bullet sponges. They need to either reduce enemy health or do a blanket increase in player damage similar to what a 4 to 5 stack of the polarity buff gave you.
    Out of curiosity, what are your criteria to determine whether a build is crap?

    My impression currently is that there actually _is_ a wide build diversity for difficulties up to (and including) Challenging. (Challenging also strongly favored red builds in TU8, but TU 8.4 changed that.) Many of the people who complain about lack of build diversity, play Heroic or Legendary. I don't see much of a problem with limited build viability on Legendary due to the role that this mode was designed for, but Heroic needs some more work imho.
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  2. #12
    xcel30's Avatar Senior Member
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    I understand that those items were pretty strong, but i will also complain about the lack of viable options, look i can make a decent shotgun build for heroic, but it scratching the the meaning of "usable" over actually being really viable. I did see that mortar turrets now wreck people like no tomorrow, but buggy gear sets and lack of actually very good talents is the issue, i just see lots of people running vigilance and unbreakable over anything else (if not using the focus shield gimmick while it lasts).

    Shotguns are extremely slow weapons that need a lot of pushing upwards to get into a useful spot even with their custom armor damage i feel like they are not that useful against most enemies with 4 man groups, evne if they are hitting in hte millions snipers and rifles can do more damage and faster by hitting headshots. Even when using something like ACS-12 with full striker bonus at 100 stacks it feels like i'm more stunning enemy on a dance than doing damage.

    I honestly see few ways to build towards few weapons that are not just crits and headshots, so that makes some other weapons really underperforming such as shotgun and pistols.
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  3. #13
    lets be honest its not build diversity the **** was to strong and its easier to nerf it into the ground then spend the time to bring everything else back up.this has been massive mo from div 1 to 2 they do the lazy balance changes for the least amount of work instead of doing it the right way
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  4. #14
    The big problem for me with this nerfing, is its not like its going to help, just do Darma on challenging with 4 members, its impossible, even with these supposed godly items.
    Like the bullet kings never run out of ammo, has not tried darmas last challenge. I run out all the time.
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  5. #15
    [QUOTE=Psyringe;14883670]I think next week's "State of the Game" (where one of the devs is supposed to talk about balancing, if I understood correctly) may shed more light on that. But yes, I agree that achieving build diversity is not an easy task. I'd just like to take a look at more of these upcoming changes before coming to a conclusion of whether they are mainly good or bad.


    Yeah either way I’m going to play the game, so I’ll adjust my build accordingly.

    Most of us are used to being beta testers by now, or we should be anyways...
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  6. #16
    Originally Posted by Agent_Ares Go to original post
    Because its order of balancing.

    You nerf the best - then you nerf enemies.
    Once you nerf the best items - the maximum potential damage decreases.
    Then you can nerf enemy health - which indirectly buffs lower-performing items.
    Massive/Redstorm have never been good at balancing. The gloves/knees helped provide some kick but ttk is still off and using multiple magazines becomes frustrating (yellow bosses). They are too concerned about knees and gloves but still cant fix glaring issues. They (lead dev) is intentionally keeping us weak in an attempt to prolong the life of the game. The constant nerfs are reminiscent of D1 (1.3). I could go on and on. We could have a good discussion about the strengths and short comings of this game, but thats best left to actual conversation to prevent feeding white knights and trolls. I dispise disrespecting others or being nasty just for the sake of it. Have a nice day continue being safe and healthy.
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  7. #17
    retro1236's Avatar Senior Member
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    [QUOTE=hyper---sniper;14883434[/QUOTE]Why Nerf Gear[QUOTE]
    Nerf some buff some, of course thats being done all the time, you're a veteran but sound like you're new to this game.
    Making most possible builds/weapons/gear viable is a goal, devs know a lot more then you.
    They have stats,logs and know what people are using, you don't.
    If you still think you know better then them, let me laugh. You don't know ****.
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  8. #18
    I agree about the NPC speed thing. It's enough that they can shred your armor in about a second while they take a lot of damage (and apparently know it), but when they zoom to you at fspeeds that would make olympic runners hide their head in shame, and merk you, it's kind of ridiculous..
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  9. #19
    retro1236's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by MELANCHOL1A Go to original post
    I agree about the NPC speed thing. It's enough that they can shred your armor in about a second while they take a lot of damage (and apparently know it), but when they zoom to you at fspeeds that would make olympic runners hide their head in shame, and merk you, it's kind of ridiculous..
    You're one of those wanting to nerf everything when it comes to enemies, just play on story mode if everything's to hard for you? No?
    If that's to hard too there's nothing that can help you. Find another game.
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  10. #20
    I find it funny how people defend this decision restating the devs said they want more diversity. Getting rid of or nerfing damage to armor, damage to targets out of cover on gloves/knee pads will not change/add build diversity in any way. People will just use what they used before they got those two items to drop. Gloves and knee pads with weapon damage, crit chance and crit damage.

    I do want build diversity though, and I hope the devs actually bring some in the future. I just don't see how the "destiny" style nerfing system will bring any new diversity. All red will still be king, we will just lose some damage. I think the bigger problem is skill builds still being lackluster (damage wise) in 4 man PVE heroic content as well as sets.
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