when are developers going to make a real balance? | Forums

[Hormly]

Balance, balance never changes

[Goat_of_Vermund]

This is the last time I'll reply to your dumb assertions. It's clear enough you are experiencing a bad time suffering from confirmation bias.

Let's use your paradigm and let me add a little correction which is intended to represent the situation a bit more realistically.


Statement 1:

A character is considered weak. (A)


Statement 2:

A character is considered balanced (B)


Statement 3:

A character is considered op (C)


Let's suppose our hypothetical players have the same skill level.
Let's suppose they're gonna play some matches. Character A will play 10 matches against Character B and 10 matches against character C. Character B will play 10 matches against character A and 10 matches against character C, and so on.


Statement 4: Results of the tournament


A vs B: 3 - 7

A vs C: 0 - 10

B vs C: 3 - 7


In this hyper simplified scheme - but more accurate than your dumb example - you can see how the only character who was able to "wash up the floor with poorly made characters" is the op one. The average character also won against the weak character (because the weak character is weak, and probably needs a buff) but not as much as the op character did.

I hope your lazy brain is smart enough to understand and accept how functional illiteracy is affecting you.

So, let's assume A is Shinobi, B is Kensei, and C is Black Prior

I don't know your skill level, but if the current shinobi is able to pull even a single round on almost any not notoriously weak characters, he is either a far better player, or you don't pay attention. So A has 0 against everyone, excluding other A.

Kensei is not a strong character, but he has a reaction punish to Bp's bashes, has very high punishes, and longer range. He has shortcomings, probably needs a buff, but has counters to all BP moves. Which means there wouldn't be a floor washing, though Kensei is considered a bad duelist. He probably needs some buffs, like many other characters.


So, the characters who literally stand zero chance against any others are poorly made and need some huge reworks or buffs. Characters with small shortcomings need a small buff.


The characters who need nerfs are the one with mechanics that are either uncounterable, or give huge and easy advantage. Hitokiri had this with his instant hyperarmor, way back Nobushi had it with her unlock tech, now currently Lawbringer has it with the hyperarmored side dodge shoves.

What exact mechanic makes Black Prior broken, unpunishable or gives him a huge advantage? I know about none.


Unless you plan to answer intelligently, you really should not answer.

[VyrusO]

So, let's assume A is Shinobi, B is Kensei, and C is Black Prior

I don't know your skill level, but if the current shinobi is able to pull even a single round on almost any not notoriously weak characters, he is either a far better player, or you don't pay attention. So A has 0 against everyone, excluding other A.

Kensei is not a strong character, but he has a reaction punish to Bp's bashes, has very high punishes, and longer range. He has shortcomings, probably needs a buff, but has counters to all BP moves. Which means there wouldn't be a floor washing, though Kensei is considered a bad duelist. He probably needs some buffs, like many other characters.


So, the characters who literally stand zero chance against any others are poorly made and need some huge reworks or buffs. Characters with small shortcomings need a small buff.


The characters who need nerfs are the one with mechanics that are either uncounterable, or give huge and easy advantage. Hitokiri had this with his instant hyperarmor, way back Nobushi had it with her unlock tech, now currently Lawbringer has it with the hyperarmored side dodge shoves.

What exact mechanic makes Black Prior broken, unpunishable or gives him a huge advantage? I know about none.


Unless you plan to answer intelligently, you really should not answer.

Dear idiot,


You need to talk about existing characters because you are not able to abstract reality and think about hypothetical schemes which describe proportional scenarios. Functional illiterate.

You have imagined a world where a good Shinobi can never win against a good Kensei (or any average hero you like) just to give the impression your logic works. Well, it doesn't.
Now you're thinking "Ohhh but you said A character won 0 matches against C". Yes, my dear idiot. But my example was about proportion and not about absolute numbers.
You can change it as follows:


A vs B: 4 - 6

A vs C: 2 - 8

B vs C: 4 - 6

I just needed to show a likely proportion between heroes. It is not supposed to be scientifically accurate. I'm pretty sure we can agree that a very powerful hero would win against a powerful hero and against a weak hero, and that a powerful hero would have a less significant victory against a weak hero than a very powerful hero against the same weak hero.

That said, if you affirm a good player using a weak hero could never win against a good player using an average hero you're just as dumb as your statements.
If you are a braindead player who is not able to win a single round using a weak hero against an average hero (both players having the same skill level) then you can't be count as statistically relevant because you are probably as smart as an amoeba.


And again, since you are a brainless person you're omitting the third category, the op category, because you know your whole speech makes no sense if you included it.



If you're thinking of writing again make sure to use all three categories: weak, average and op. I hope you'll understand how dumb you are, my dear functional illiterate.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

Dear idiot,


You need to talk about existing characters because you are not able to abstract reality and think about hypothetical schemes which describe proportional scenarios. Functional illiterate.

You have imagined a world where a good Shinobi can never win against a good Kensei (or any average hero you like) just to give the impression your logic works. Well, it doesn't.
Now you're thinking "Ohhh but you said A character won 0 matches against C". Yes, my dear idiot. But my example was about proportion and not about absolute numbers.
You can change it as follows:


A vs B: 4 - 6

A vs C: 2 - 8

B vs C: 4 - 6

I just needed to show a likely proportion between heroes. It is not supposed to be scientifically accurate. I'm pretty sure we can agree that a very powerful hero would win against a powerful hero and against a weak hero, and that a powerful hero would have a less significant victory against a weak hero than a very powerful hero against the same weak hero.

That said, if you affirm a good player using a weak hero could never win against a good player using an average hero you're just as dumb as your statements.
If you are a braindead player who is not able to win a single round using a weak hero against an average hero (both players having the same skill level) then you can't be count as statistically relevant because you are probably as smart as an amoeba.


And again, since you are a brainless person you're omitting the third category, the op category, because you know your whole speech makes no sense if you included it.



If you're thinking of writing again make sure to use all three categories: weak, average and op. I hope you'll understand how dumb you are, my dear functional illiterate.

You conveniently ignored my question about what makes bp op, instead you made statements in my name I did not make. Your little wiki qoute about functional illiterates really fits you.

Since you don't display more intelligene than an avarage child, I finish this conversation with you.

[VyrusO]

You conveniently ignored my question about what makes bp op, instead you made statements in my name I did not make. Your little wiki qoute about functional illiterates really fits you.

Since you don't display more intelligene than an avarage child, I finish this conversation with you.

My dear golden idiot,

I haven't answered your question because I was trying to teach you basic analytical logics. You can't talk about technical problems if you lack in the basic logics which are required to understand and analyze things outside of the game itself.

There are several problems we may discuss about bp which make him op but as long as you can't sustain a speech concerning simple logics it's pretty useless even to try to talk about more technical issues you would surely not understand. I'm pretty sure other players more competent than me will bear serious discussions which will hopefully brought some good ideas.

Best regards to yet another dumb functional illiterate person who can't recognize his functional illiteracy

[Goat_of_Vermund]

Balance, balance never changes

It might do a little. For example, people say TG Warlord became very strong, almost a top tier duelist because his lights stagger people. Might be an overexaggeration.

[PhoenixSOS]

Black prior is not OP. Meta knight in brawl was OP. There is a clear difference between how each of these characters affects the game, gameplay, and players. If you cannot understand and/or figure that out you're an idiot. Here's a hint, brawl's tournament scene died because they waited too long to ban meta knights. Black prior has never been in the discussion for tournament ban. PK was banned at one point and in TG Jorm was banned because of overpowered feats. The fact that goat took time out of his day to try and better your understanding of how wrong you are is astounding. Then he gave you facts about game mechanics which you ignored tried shoveling red herring statistical/probability analytics that have no comparison to this game down his throat like he doesn't acknowledge this game's balance is out of wack. And to cap it all off if you cannot understand this simple concept you're an idiot: The game can be unbalanced without having any overpowered heroes/characters. The game can also be unbalanced while having overpowered heroes/characters. Shinobi for example has overtuned dmg and some of the highest punishes alongside LB, but the rest of his kit is lacking, he has no real opener, no OOS pressure, reflex guard, clear animations for enemies, high gb vulnerability, super low health, not the greatest stamina, and average feats. Shinobi is a trash character. Shinobi also has overtuned dmg. These are both true statements and are mutually exclusive. Mutually exclusive statements such as: Black prior is not an OP character. The game does not have good character balance.

[vitez_obilic]

Every new class that they release its OP.I quit 2 years ago because of Centurion becouse he was so OP when they released him it was crazy and now Black Prior.Also the game still didn't improve about stamina problems what was the problem from the bigging.In duels 90% players play so defensive and waut till no stamina and then they attack.They did balance most of the old classes but new classes are out balance a lot and its not fun playing against then at all.

[VyrusO]

Every new class that they release its OP.I quit 2 years ago because of Centurion becouse he was so OP when they released him it was crazy and now Black Prior.Also the game still didn't improve about stamina problems what was the problem from the bigging.In duels 90% players play so defensive and waut till no stamina and then they attack.They did balance most of the old classes but new classes are out balance a lot and its not fun playing against then at all.

I agree. But it gets harder to balance heroes if your community keeps defending OP heroes with nonsense sentences. Unfortunately they're the same people who poupulate the world. As the two guys above proved, they can't understand simple concepts outside the game itself so how do you expect they can understand what "balanced game" or "balanced hero" or "balanced something" means? I feel sorry for devs who have to try to balance a game whose community is not smart enough to understand black prior is op.
Or maybe they know he is op but they use him as main and they're not intellectually honest enough to admit it publicly.

[EvoX.]

...saying " because you chose a worse character" implies an unbalanced system where the character you choose plays a majority role in the game than the actual skills.

That's how the game has been since 2017, that's how it will always be. As soon as you reach a certain average level of defense and game knowledge in For Honor, everything except hero choice becomes irrelevant. The ones who think otherwise are kidding themselves, for various reasons - most commonly because they play exclusively S-tiers and like to think it has always been their skill that won them matches. As if.

Although, this thread is fundamentally wrong: it's not Prior that's broken, it's everyone below him that's subpar or trash. He's what everyone should be, not the other way around. I'll also say that the difference between him and the weakest heroes is embarrassingly large, which just reinforces the horrendous balance point.