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  1. #1

    So what exactly would you do to make a game like this harder?

    I think its generally understood posters on game forums represent a small portion of any player base and most post because they are unhappy with same part of the game they are playing. People who are enjoying the game are doing just that; playing and enjoying the game and not posting.

    With that said there are obviously a few common threads of dislike given by the current posters. The new gear system being one and the difficulty level being another.

    So I want to ask about the difficulty level. Pre warlords running mission on heroic became the 'normal'. But they felt far from being heroic and playing became for many a rather big bore.

    Things have been reset and normal is normal and missions of a level above normal are progressively harder.

    The complaint I see most often leveled is the difficulty curve is increased by number of NPCs and how much damage those NPCs can do and take. I seldom see people offering solutions or other options in regards to scaling difficulty in such games.

    Most games that offer the ability to scale difficulty do so by making the encounters more threatening to the player. Enemies have more skills or their existing skills do more damage. They take more damage to kill and/or there are more added for the player to fight. Or new mechanics are added like certain damage types being required to damage certain enemies.

    So given the semi-realistic no fantasy game world of D2 how would you scale difficulty? What would you specifically do to make a heroic encounter heroic or a legendary one truly a test of the player?
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  2. #2
    the problem at the moment is they both do insane damage AND have insane health
    at the same time.

    reducing damage too much would be bad if you leave the HP the same, because well it makes the problem worse, you are just shooting sponges who cant shoot back, being sponges with high damage works because they take long and punish you for getting annoyed with the length it takes to kill them.

    on the other hand reducing their hp to a moderate amount and keeping damage, makes them punishing for less of a reason.


    The difficulty it self's problem is something we cant fix with more enemies because the systems cannot handle it. But it is extenuated by how the spawning system currently is handled.

    As it stand now, the game uses waves, and here lies the problem with difficulty, waves make the enemies less disposable to how they should feel as enemies. We kill an enemy, and that instantly reduces their force strength until the wave is cleared or we reach a bottom cap which will spawn more.

    Instead we should be spawning enemies on the fly as needed. Keeping the enemy density more constant will drastically change how these battles are handled. There should be waves in certain parts, but not everything should be waves.


    instead enemies should have a spawn pool to pull from with a max number that can currently be alive, kill one or 2 it should pull 2 more from the pool and spawn them right away. And maybe not from the same places. In a more open area have them spawn more from flanks.


    As we have it now, we are whittling down their forces too much, so they get weaker as a battle goes on until the point where a new wave is spawned. A single enemy is easily outmanoeuvred, but many enemies are not.


    So less health, and more consistent target numbers at any given moment. As we have it now, as we clear things get easier. And would a batle really always be waves of reinforcements and not... say... a more constant flow?

    We can still keep waves in the battle, but make the waves be what spawns the heavies in battles of constant enemy deployment. Heavies, named and certain enemy types should take longer to get geared up compared to say a red bar.


    And more waves is just more of the same, it allows for breathers, on harder having a larger and larger pool of enemies really reduces breathing room, especially when you get longer stings of elites mixed in.
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  3. #3
    THE_Crazy_Hyena's Avatar Member
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    In my opinion..
    - More enemies, scaled with difficulty setting. If the devs wanted longer encounters, it's better to have more spawns.
    - Keep the current damage scaling, but with a few tweaks here and there (some enemies are a bit overtuned for their level of utility)
    - Less health on veteran and elites, but have their AI increase with difficulty. In a way like bots in the classic Counter-Strike games (faster reaction times, better aim, more co-operating with eachother, and more aggressive towards a threat)
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  4. #4
    The pool idea is interesting and does not rule out waves; the way the Tusk get helicopter borne reinforcements is actually a plausible wave mechanic.

    More enemies is always used, but the idea of more synergy between those enemies (cooperating with each other) is not used as often. So yes, to see NPCs work more as a unit with cover fire and movement would be nice. A unified push as opposed to here-and-there rushers we see now.

    And back at the pool it would be nice if there spawn areas became a bit more random on each mission. With warlords we see a few instances of enemies purposely spawning behind us at trigger points, but why not more of that in a random fashion. I think random spawns would add a lot so you would not be able to set up in front of that one door because you know the next wave will come from there.
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by AlloyAlchemist Go to original post
    The pool idea is interesting and does not rule out waves; the way the Tusk get helicopter borne reinforcements is actually a plausible wave mechanic.

    More enemies is always used, but the idea of more synergy between those enemies (cooperating with each other) is not used as often. So yes, to see NPCs work more as a unit with cover fire and movement would be nice. A unified push as opposed to here-and-there rushers we see now.

    And back at the pool it would be nice if there spawn areas became a bit more random on each mission. With warlords we see a few instances of enemies purposely spawning behind us at trigger points, but why not more of that in a random fashion. I think random spawns would add a lot so you would not be able to set up in front of that one door because you know the next wave will come from there.
    I truly believe its pretty much what the game needs at the moment.... and to give us back the talents they took away... and make exotics fun again.... and give each armour piece a talent :V
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  6. #6
    You could only run invaded on heroic before. It wasn't mainstay like you say.

    Personally, I would've done exactly what they did. Next tier gear offers more armor and health because enemies do more damage. Not a new concept. Nothing you can do about power creep unless you have premade characters and the next tier is just a different archetype and is difficult because it's new or puzzle-like.

    Works fine with this system with a little tuning, and would've worked fine with old system with a little tuning.
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  7. #7
    As1r0nimo's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by THE_Crazy_Hyena Go to original post
    In my opinion..
    - More enemies, scaled with difficulty setting. If the devs wanted longer encounters, it's better to have more spawns.
    - Keep the current damage scaling, but with a few tweaks here and there (some enemies are a bit overtuned for their level of utility)
    - Less health on veteran and elites, but have their AI increase with difficulty. In a way like bots in the classic Counter-Strike games (faster reaction times, better aim, more co-operating with eachother, and more aggressive towards a threat)
    At SotG devs stated:
    1) They can't make more enemies due to perfomance issues (both server and the client). And longer encounters will be boring, really.
    2) That what are going to do. Some tuning here and there, moderate tuning on Challenging, small on Heroic, overall tuning on elites and Named enemies, fixing bugs like Super-Health-Box etc.
    3) They will make those changes. And more importantly, instead of Big "fck ths sht" full rebalance, they will make small tweeks every few days and gathering feedback. For example, they can tune down elite and named enemy's health pool by 20% and damage from all enemies by 10-30% (depending on type). And then see, if people will like it or not. And this is cool.
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  8. #8
    zigMAGNA's Avatar Senior Member
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    i am not one that finds the difficulty an issue.. i enjoy it..
    but it is taxing on my mouse using a pistol on Challenging or higher.. left click..left click.. left click.. i bought a new mouse as "back up".. bc I have broken mice before left clicking to infinity with Diablo 3.

    But i will say.. ideally we would all like smarter AI mechanics in terms of difficulty..
    increasing the number of enemies apparently poses a challenge in itself.. technical challenges i believe the devs mentioned somewhere.

    But if the AI could be made to play out smarter and become tougher.. and the prime ideal example are those enemy Rogue agents.
    But if the enemy ROgue agents are the AI pinnacle standard..
    then i guess we just need to boost some of the lesser AI elites to somewhere in between.. like a junior ROgue agent... in terms of AI toughness and tactical ferocity.
    Just my thoughts on it.

    I think everyone can agree the rogue agents are some of the best and most engaging AI fights we have.

    And KUDOS to a constructive feedback thread.. about this topic.. kinda hate hearing b---tch fests and rants..with no solutions or proper discussion.. just i want to complain.. and vent.. posts..
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