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  1. #1

    Transparency

    One of the things that kept people in this game when we had p2p server issues and when the balancing was a fair bit worse than it is now was that the devs shared with us that they know what the community is thinking and saying and they were telling us how they were working on it or ideas they had. When the warrior's dens slowly became a matter of tournament news, dev talks and half a show community corner, the devs decided the negative feedback of this meant we wanted less communication, now we don't even get a den every week.

    I am guessing the dens as they were, especially with the questions from the community, are not coming back, so I was hoping that these could maybe be passed on.

    - If we are not getting more detailed dens, will the devs consider doing more AMA's for balance related questions?

    - Can we get any update on matchmaking in general? It has been broken since right before the first set of drops for watching For Honor streamers, new people with about nine reps between them should not be facing comp team fourstacks. On the flip side comp team fourstacks should not be waiting fifteen minutes to get a group of single queue newbies or a match against bots both of which happened many times in the stream reward period right after the last set of changes (go look up a clutchmeister or zero_craic video from that period). A solid matchmaking system is important to keep players of all levels engaged in the game.

    - Also on matchmaking have the devs considered changing the matchmaking so that a player selects a character or role before matchmaking? The devs are indicating that they would like single pick, this would allow this without screwing over players and the reason given for not having it, other than it is a bit of work, was that it does not let people pick team composition. I don't know how much matchmaking the devs play but team composition does not happen in pug play as it is. If the devs believe single pick is needed then it is obvious that the issue comes up more than the rare occurrence the devs indicated otherwise why would they need to touch it and it will be a nightmare for learning or grinding reps on any new heroes outside of duel pvp or dominion or breach pvai with matchmaking off both of which have much less xp over time than dominion or breach by design in pvai and because of spending more time in matchmaking in duel.The optimal team comp would be vanguard/assassin/heavy/hybrid which selection before matchmaking would accomplish and frankly in pug selection after matchmaking very rarely happens.

    - Alternatively are there any plans to reintroduce a ranked 4v4 where single pick belongs without screwing over players that just want a few casual games in their leisure time? Because honestly choice should not be removed or limited in casual play and with matchmaking as it is that is exactly what single pick would do.

    - Game related have the devs considered changes to dominion that do not give points for kills? This probably even with the scoring as it is now other than kills would place the emphasis on keeping the objectives rather than an offzone deathmatch.

    - Because deathmatch does have a place and a following would the devs consider separating the skirmish and elimination playlists? With dynamic rewards these never picked up, part of that is that dominion at certain levels is more deathmatch than objective based anyhow (hence question above), but I feel a larger part is that a player might be forced into a game they don't want to play. The hardcore skirmish and elimination crowds never liked the other deathmatch and I have come into endgame lobbies where a group has, assumedly from not picking a preference, hijacked the lobby to change it from skirmish to elimination or vice versa.
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  2. #2
    I too would like to see AMA's be a regular thing again. Since they're not doing a den every week it should be something that's relatively doable for them.

    Far as the matchmaking thing goes I was reading up a post from my guy who does population tests pretty often ish. Supposedly the last server downage they did was only noted as some "back end" fixing. but it was non descript. Turns out it supposedly had fixed some soft locking in regards to MM. I'm not doing it justice as it's rather complex. But it's implied through his/her conversations with the devs that they weren't aware of some of the MM issues he was bringing to light. I can only imagine the reason they've been relatively silent on the MM front is because they largely don't know the entirety of issues and the extent of them.

    As much as I am in support of ideas like role ques I don't think that would be a decent fit in FH because roles are soft locked and not hard set traditional roles like say a game like Paladins. Every hero can perform every role in FH. Some are just better at some than others. We'd have a better fit with something like Evolve's preference based system where you pick (in order) the top 3-4 heros you wish to play (or just leave some blank to prioritize 1-2 heros) and then have the MM search for spots that would allow you to play said hero(s).

    I feel ranked mode is the only salvation for those of us asking for single pick. However the devs would have to put in a real effort to make sure ranked didn't tank like last time. They'ed also have to do something akin to a mix tape style MM search system (see titanfall 2 for an example) instead of trying to have a seperate que for a ranked version of all modes. As we can currently see with today's MM search style we have a lot of dead modes. Being able to select a variety of modes in a single que search would certainly help here.
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  3. #3
    Vakris_One's Avatar Senior Member
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    I also want to see a return of the Q&A segment in the Warriors Den. Pope and Damien handled that well and the steady stream of transparent communication played a very important part in keeping interest and faith in the game alive.

    To add to Candle's questions:
    - Can we get a progress update from when the developers said they were working on improving the target switch system? Is that still being worked on and when can we expect a likely ETA?

    - What happened to the plans for the second half of the lag compensation system? Has that been repurposed elsewhere or completely scrapped?

    - Why does the game's online infrastructure always favour the player with a sub-par internet connection? And can something be done about that?

    - Why is the auto kick for bad ping capped so high at 300 when even so much as a semi-consistent ping of 100 is enough to create a terrible experience for everyone else in the lobby?
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  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
    I too would like to see AMA's be a regular thing again. Since they're not doing a den every week it should be something that's relatively doable for them.

    Far as the matchmaking thing goes I was reading up a post from my guy who does population tests pretty often ish. Supposedly the last server downage they did was only noted as some "back end" fixing. but it was non descript. Turns out it supposedly had fixed some soft locking in regards to MM. I'm not doing it justice as it's rather complex. But it's implied through his/her conversations with the devs that they weren't aware of some of the MM issues he was bringing to light. I can only imagine the reason they've been relatively silent on the MM front is because they largely don't know the entirety of issues and the extent of them.

    As much as I am in support of ideas like role ques I don't think that would be a decent fit in FH because roles are soft locked and not hard set traditional roles like say a game like Paladins. Every hero can perform every role in FH. Some are just better at some than others. We'd have a better fit with something like Evolve's preference based system where you pick (in order) the top 3-4 heros you wish to play (or just leave some blank to prioritize 1-2 heros) and then have the MM search for spots that would allow you to play said hero(s).

    I feel ranked mode is the only salvation for those of us asking for single pick. However the devs would have to put in a real effort to make sure ranked didn't tank like last time. They'ed also have to do something akin to a mix tape style MM search system (see titanfall 2 for an example) instead of trying to have a seperate que for a ranked version of all modes. As we can currently see with today's MM search style we have a lot of dead modes. Being able to select a variety of modes in a single que search would certainly help here.
    They really do need some form of back and forth communication, they fostered a lot of good will in year one because yeah there were things that sucked but they acknowledged it and the player base felt that were working on it. I honestly do not believe we would be in year four without the kind of communication that is sadly lacking today.

    I didn't know that regarding matchmaking, here's hoping that can fix it though honestly they've had a whole bunch of people telling them it is screwed since the patch.

    If not a role based matchmaking then something as simple as just the one character would do it, maybe with the preferences as an option like you said to speed things up but ultimately if I want to grind a new hero, because I have two not at rep 8, another 12 reps and I will only have whatever they have coming out new for that grind, or I feel like playing peacekeeper or lawbringer or valkyrie before work I am not going to sit through a game not playing that character so even if it means a longer wait time it absolutely needs to be an option that I want this one hero and this one alone.
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by CandleInTheDark Go to original post
    They really do need some form of back and forth communication, they fostered a lot of good will in year one because yeah there were things that sucked but they acknowledged it and the player base felt that were working on it. I honestly do not believe we would be in year four without the kind of communication that is sadly lacking today.

    I didn't know that regarding matchmaking, here's hoping that can fix it though honestly they've had a whole bunch of people telling them it is screwed since the patch.

    If not a role based matchmaking then something as simple as just the one character would do it, maybe with the preferences as an option like you said to speed things up but ultimately if I want to grind a new hero, because I have two not at rep 8, another 12 reps and I will only have whatever they have coming out new for that grind, or I feel like playing peacekeeper or lawbringer or valkyrie before work I am not going to sit through a game not playing that character so even if it means a longer wait time it absolutely needs to be an option that I want this one hero and this one alone.
    Oh absolutely. If we the community weren't constantly pecking at them FH probably wouldn't be where it is today. I think we just need to get louder again about what we want from the Den. It's worked before afterall.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/co...ix_on_03mar20/

    ^ Above is the thread I was talking about in relation to the MM stuff. In case you wanted a more in depth reading without me mangling the words.

    I can only agree. MM is one of the games biggest sore spots right now. I wish the devs would acknowledge this.
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  6. #6
    Vakris_One's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
    Oh absolutely. If we the community weren't constantly pecking at them FH probably wouldn't be where it is today. I think we just need to get louder again about what we want from the Den. It's worked before afterall.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/co...ix_on_03mar20/

    ^ Above is the thread I was talking about in relation to the MM stuff. In case you wanted a more in depth reading without me mangling the words.

    I can only agree. MM is one of the games biggest sore spots right now. I wish the devs would acknowledge this.
    Thanks for that link. It's a very informative read and although I cannot confirm nor deny that person's credentials pretty much everything they have documented about the problems with Matchmaking since 8 months ago I have personally seen happen and/or experienced myself.

    The issues with "Soft MMR" is something I will take their word for as I have no direct experience of that myself since I've been a regular enough player for these last 8 months. But I have seen and read a lot of reports from returning players of these kinds of issues.

    I can however confirm, at least from my end, that the issues of High MMR waiting longer and getting matched with low MMR players and players being placed in the wrong regional data centres are sadly not fixed. I'm in the EU region and I'm still getting frequent lobbies with players who remain at an irregularly high ping - usually in the 90-120 range. This is very likely an indicator of someone from a different continent being shunted to the EU servers. If it was just someone with bad internet or intentional skullduggery the ping would either be fluctuating constantly or it would show up as a normal ping but the packet loss, which we don't see, would make their attacks fluctuate between normal speeds/frames to abnormally fast/skipping frames. Whether it's an issue of VPNs or the game doing a bad job I can't really say because it goes beyond my area of knowledge on the subject.

    As for the issue of high MMR players waiting longer only to get a match with low MMR players, that too has not changed for me nor the high MMR players that I watch and regularly group with. Just yesterday I was playing in a stack with other players of equally high MMR (Rep-wise all of us being above 275) and we ended up waiting 14 minutes at one point for a lobby and it was up against a team of players who were all below rep 10.

    I really hope the devs acknowledge the problems their game's matchmaking has been having for the past 8 months and counting. It's been extremely well documented at this point by some of the game's most prominent streamers and Youtubers. The only ones not openly talking about matchmaking are the developers and that's a big communication problem. A communication problem that didn't used to be the case back when Damien Kieken frequently came along to the Warriors Dens and talked about matchmaking issues and fixes the team were currently examining and working on.
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Vakris_One Go to original post
    Thanks for that link. It's a very informative read and although I cannot confirm nor deny that person's credentials pretty much everything they have documented about the problems with Matchmaking since 8 months ago I have personally seen happen and/or experienced myself.

    The issues with "Soft MMR" is something I will take their word for as I have no direct experience of that myself since I've been a regular enough player for these last 8 months. But I have seen and read a lot of reports from returning players of these kinds of issues.

    I can however confirm, at least from my end, that the issues of High MMR waiting longer and getting matched with low MMR players and players being placed in the wrong regional data centres are sadly not fixed. I'm in the EU region and I'm still getting frequent lobbies with players who remain at an irregularly high ping - usually in the 90-120 range. This is very likely an indicator of someone from a different continent being shunted to the EU servers. If it was just someone with bad internet or intentional skullduggery the ping would either be fluctuating constantly or it would show up as a normal ping but the packet loss, which we don't see, would make their attacks fluctuate between normal speeds/frames to abnormally fast/skipping frames. Whether it's an issue of VPNs or the game doing a bad job I can't really say because it goes beyond my area of knowledge on the subject.

    As for the issue of high MMR players waiting longer only to get a match with low MMR players, that too has not changed for me nor the high MMR players that I watch and regularly group with. Just yesterday I was playing in a stack with other players of equally high MMR (Rep-wise all of us being above 275) and we ended up waiting 14 minutes at one point for a lobby and it was up against a team of players who were all below rep 10.

    I really hope the devs acknowledge the problems their game's matchmaking has been having for the past 8 months and counting. It's been extremely well documented at this point by some of the game's most prominent streamers and Youtubers. The only ones not openly talking about matchmaking are the developers and that's a big communication problem. A communication problem that didn't used to be the case back when Damien Kieken frequently came along to the Warriors Dens and talked about matchmaking issues and fixes the team were currently examining and working on.
    Yes this was the guy I'd go to if I ever had to slam someone with the "fOr HOnOr hAs lOw PoPuLAtIoN" responses. As he's been testing population numbers for quite some time now.
    It is unfortunate that the most glaring MM searching issue (the one you've described) still has yet to be addressed or fixed.
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  8. #8
    Col.Bullet's Avatar Member
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    To be quite honest, I have never found the Dev Teams communication to be particularly transparent. Better than many other big developers, sure. Simply for the fact that with the Warriors Den they actually tried to do something other than the occasional blog post. Aswell as giving explanations on the patch notes for why they make a particular change.
    But that's it really. Communication will never become transparent to me until at least some of the Devs, out of their own volition, start browsing the forums themselves, take their own notes on subjects and join the discussions here and on reddit in person, sharing information without consideration for PR purposes or team hierarchy.
    Sorry for the long rambling, but that's just how I see it. I know the Devs are doing their best, they are committed and friendly people. And this probably sounds far too negative, it really isn't meant like it.
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  9. #9
    Oh, I miss the Original Warriors Den. I've been open to its newer version but it just doesn't live up to what it once was. I'm sure their trying, kinda. Sure looks it, like they're trying to create something special and newish. And perhaps, in time they will. They have made the best of it so far and I don't question their passion to help make this game better by continuing to reach out and remain in touch with their fans via their Twitch stream. Ubisoft is big on the community aspect of their games. But like other gaming companies, the bottom line makes the final decision on how far and how often the creative team of game developers can continue with improving and expanding their games while remaining in touch with their fans simultaneously. I think the burden lies ultimately with the community of fans who need to be more welcoming and positive with their constructive feedback. This thread is one way of encouraging players to dialogue, to talk to one another respectfully and not talk at each other like trolls are in the habit of doing. I wish there were more threads like these to be honest. The toxic environment I've seen at these forums can be very off-putting at times. I tend to not bother to participate much as a result. That's just me though.

    Thanks @CandleInTheDark for sharing your thoughts with us.
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