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  1. #1

    MASSIVE: care to explain what was wrong with TU7??

    TU7 was awesome, it was fun and it felt good!

    ...but TU8 just destroyed all that^^
    Your suggestion to be patient, "optimize" my build/tactics and level the SHD watch is no solution to the main problem:


    the game isn't fun anymore!

    Division 2 after TU8 feels like hard, annoying work - very unrewarding work.

    ...i guess the navy seals training couldn't be much worse^^
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  2. #2
    Agent_Ares's Avatar Senior Member
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    If you feel that way make sure to fill in their survey
    https://forums.ubisoft.com/showthrea...pdate-8-Survey

    Don't use all caps or write profanity they will ignore it.
    Write sensible arguments and fill it in honestly and hope for the best.
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  3. #3
    They already did. They just lied about it was all.

    I bought into it, I'll admit it. I was STOKED for WoNY and cleaned up my characters in anticipation.

    Problem is, is the product the delivered is for kids that like Fortnite or whatever. It's so simple a 10 year old child can manage their "builds". This game has been so dumbed down now, that there is almost no point in making anything but 3 different builds. Every skill build is the same, just a different skill. Every gun build is the same just using a different gun. Every tank is the same and they can't even tank because Massive doesn't understand damage mitigation, or aggro for that matter.

    They made this change because the demographic they had wasn't enough to feed their greedy appetite. So, they did the next best thing and dumbed the game down so even kids can play it in hopes of widening their profit margins.

    It's not even an rpg anymore. At this point, it might as well have premade characters.
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  4. #4
    Problem is, is the product the delivered is for kids that like Fortnite or whatever. It's so simple a 10 year old child can manage their "builds". This game has been so dumbed down now, that there is almost no point in making anything but 3 different builds. Every skill build is the same, just a different skill. Every gun build is the same just using a different gun. Every tank is the same and they can't even tank because Massive doesn't understand damage mitigation, or aggro for that matter.
    SO true.
    They really lied.
    They said exotics would be better after the changes. Most became useless.
    They said talents would be more build-defining and powerful but less numerous. But most became watered down versions of their older selves. A lot got murdered (clutch...).
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  5. #5
    CCloak's Avatar Junior Member
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    The old gear system was indeed bad and stupid. But accidentally with the introduction of targeted loot and most brand pieces extending to all slots, suddenly it made the old system a lot better, as you have easy paths to farm both for gear you actually want to equip, and those where you would use for recalibration mules. But gear 2.0 was probably planned before these changes were made live, and sadly, targeted loot not only doesn't fit as good on the new system, as certain brand sets no longer guarantee ultra high rolls with the new system, they also nerfed targeted loot droprates itself, from a guarantee GS500 good drop, to a high chance of rubbish purple/yellow drop on entry level difficulty. The final result was that the new loot hunt isn't as rewarding as it previously was, and this doesn't do well when you also made everyone start over once again from their previous god tier powers, while also intentionally buff NPC power to make farming even more difficult in one single patch.

    Obviously, there is more problems than this, particularly some redesigned talents do not make any sense in the new change, while there are still clearly a lot of perks, stats,etc that are clearly unchanged to fit the newly changed game (why the hell we still have 30% health on kill perk in specialization in a game where health no longer scale high enough to provide any meaningful change to survivability).
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  6. #6
    I prefer the changes, the old system with the unintended inventory management side game was stale and boring, yes i could plow through all the enemies like a one man wreaking ball but that was getting stale really fast.
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  7. #7
    Trippul G's Avatar Senior Member
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    I need some time to play some more to get a more comprehensive look at things (I took an alt character to SHD level 2, then turned around and just hit lvl 40 with my main). But this is what stands out to me so far:

    I kind of feel like if they had left the gear as it was in TU7, but simply added the stat library (which I feel is probably the best thing about TU8), we'd be in a better position than the current state of things as far as build diversity goes.

    I play mostly solo, sometimes as a 2-man team. Right now, it feels to me like hybrid builds aren't really viable anymore. You basically have some slight variations within three main builds: dps, tank, and skills. But in order for the build to be effective, you pretty much have to fully spec into either all red, all blue, or all yellow. It doesn't leave much room for creative experimentation.

    Having only two gear pieces with talents feels pretty limiting, tbh. Sure, it makes gear management much easier, as it's now very easy to compare loot when with most things you're just comparing lengths of bars, but I think gear streamlining has now gone a bit too far and has breached the realm of oversimplification. I think it would open up a lot more creative options if we had even one more gear piece that had a talent.

    Regarding enemy AI and their current difficulty, it's clear that their AI logic has been improved, and that's great. I love that they are generally much more tactical now, and will actively flank, reposition, lay down covering fire for each other, etc. I kind of feel like if they had just added these AI improvements (without going and messing with inflating enemy HP and DPS), that would have been enough to keep things challenging.

    I haven't played much of the higher difficulty content (mostly story mode, with a few hard bounties here and there). Did attempt one challenging bounty when I was level 35 or so and dressed in ragtag gear, and I swiftly got my butt handed to me, which I guess I should have expected. The game definitely feels more challenging now. I just fear it may have swung too far in that direction. I don't want to say it's for sure "too this" or "too that" right now though. I'll be able to form a better opinion as I'm able to spend some more time with it.

    Oh and FWIW...only 4 armor kits now instead of 6? That's a stealth nerf that I was NOT pleased to see. Definitely don't remember hearing anything about that prior to TU8.
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  8. #8
    It's almost like game developers these days can say anything and then make the opposite and nobody will notice. IE: EXOTICS WILL BE AWESOME. They are ****. And we will just go "well massive said it was gonna be awesome so this must be what awesome means.
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  9. #9
    desrocchi's Avatar Senior Member
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    This really makes me despise live service games.

    I was enjoying the game so much and all of a sudden it's all upside down and I get a completely different game that makes me wat to rip my eyes out of my skull.
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  10. #10
    No TU7 was NOT fun. Everything was BEYOND EZ mode. When you speed run a challenge mode mission in 5-10mins by skills killing the entire room on a single use, 15s CD or guns killing the entire room in a single clip, its a problem. Gearing was a mess due to the budget system, you needed sheets to know what the top rolls of items could be.

    TU7 was a complete mess of things. If your idea of fun was to EZ mode Challenging+ content then a game is never going to last my friend. There are generally 2 types of players (theres more subsets but in a general sense there are only 2).

    Your Hardcore playerbase. They are the ones that spend hours and hours playing per day, trying to min/max gear. They are also the ones that generally spend the most money in terms of things like cosmetics and game upgrades. They are looking for something to actually challenging them and figure out how to beat said challenge. They are also the ones that actually define the meta builds for every other player to copy.

    Then you have the more casual player base. These people are the ones that buy the game, play off and on again as they have time. They don't care about min/maxing and just want to play the game. They usually come back during a new content release, explore it for a bit then move on.
    Within this casual subset are the players that think if the hardcore player can kill the hardest content, so should they without putting the effort in to actually gearing for it. When the going gets hard, if its too hard, they will take to the forums or reddit or whatever and complain about it being too hard and cry for a nerf. They are the vocal minority of players yet because they are so loud about it, they are the ones that actually force the devs to make changes to make things easier.

    But you know what happenes when things get easier, more people stop playing sooner.

    First of All, the Casual base already plays off and on as it is, if things got easier, they'd stop sooner and only return for new conent, spend at most a few days on it then stop playing again. They arn't playing, arn't spending anything for things like cosmetics, and playerbase goes down.
    Remember too that the crier for the nerf is also a casual player, he gets his wish, EZ modes the content down, goes back onto the forums to whine for "whens more content coming", finds out nothing is coming for a while, then promptly quits playing, generally with some form of "this game sucks post"

    The hardcore crowd is now also in a rough spot. Because content is now super easy, more so for them now because they already min/maxed their builds, there isn't anything hard left to shoot for now. So guess what happens, they stop playing. In turn EVERYONE has basically stopped playing the game, game dies into oblivion.

    If content didn't get nerfed to EZ mode, the hardcore players stay as they are still wanting to push that harder content and the casual players would still be on and off again players when they got the itch to play and they also still have plenty of stuff to do when they did get on. The only people up in arms are the cries for nerfs and their threats to leave. Dev's need to stop listening to them and just let them leave. They arn't the ones that keep the player counts up months down the road anyway. Its the Hardcores and the on again off again casual players.
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