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  1. #1

    Nerf BP shield flip

    Everytime I play against a BP it feels very unfair and cheating move. It is super cheesy and spammy.

    For example I land a heavy and go into kick as Hitokiri then before my kick he shield flips me. Really

    Seriously let me explain how crazy this move is. First of all it can be done 5-6 times on full stamina. It has no limit how many people it can flip. It flips guys on the front to back and guys at the back to the front. How is this physically possible? It ignores revenge HA UB attack block bash anything. It has very very good range and arc. Attack itself is UB and has HA ( if I'm not wrong). What really pissed me off I will throw vipers retreat as Nobu which is supposed to longest range move in this game. I can't reach him but he will shield flip me from that distance. I would be in the air for like good 3 seconds.

    Did I also mention he heals in the middle of battle on full block which is so so much better than 4th level regeneration feat which you have to be idle.
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  2. #2
    Originally Posted by Erhanninja Go to original post
    Everytime I play against a BP it feels very unfair and cheating move. It is super cheesy and spammy.

    For example I land a heavy and go into kick as Hitokiri then before my kick he shield flips me. Really

    Seriously let me explain how crazy this move is. First of all it can be done 5-6 times on full stamina. It has no limit how many people it can flip. It flips guys on the front to back and guys at the back to the front. How is this physically possible? It ignores revenge HA UB attack block bash anything. It has very very good range and arc. Attack itself is UB and has HA ( if I'm not wrong). What really pissed me off I will throw vipers retreat as Nobu which is supposed to longest range move in this game. I can't reach him but he will shield flip me from that distance. I would be in the air for like good 3 seconds.

    Did I also mention he heals in the middle of battle on full block which is so so much better than 4th level regeneration feat which you have to be idle.

    1. If your attack does not reach him, he won't flip you. So it reached him. The mechanic is simple: if anything hits him during white, he flips it. If not, it will do the move without anything.
    2. It has a short window, so not easy at all, you have to know exactly what you want to counter. It is obviously vulnerable to guardbreaks, as well as slower attacks. It usually costs a heavy's worth of damage to fail a Bulwark Counter. If you are flipped constantly, you are predictable. You might want to feint-guardbreak more.
    3. I am pretty sure Shinobi ranged attacks supposed to be, and are longer range than Viper's retreat.
    4. As soon as you tell me how the Hitokiri even wields that stupidly oversized axe, let alone making saltos with it, we may start to speak about realism.
    5. It doesn't ignore revenge. If you have revenge and activate it when the guaranteed sword strike is about to hit you, he will fall to the ground. If you mean you can be flipped while having revenge, then yes, you can be flipped. Or parried, fullblocked etc.
    6. Regeneration is much faster. It is still a bad feat of course.
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  3. #3
    no his bulwark is easy to bait if he spamming it as you say just heavy feint gb him
    but it shouldnt flip feat's or deflects imo
    only thing i would like him to be nerfed at is his bash recovery , because that is a safe spam if he decides to only sb
    other than that he is a solid pick
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  4. #4
    Soo for example as Nobu I land a light and straight go into kick and he shield flips me every single time. Same with Conq bash etc. Not sure how I'm supposed to bait it when I'm doing bash or kick.

    So all the benefits of the move is okay because it has a small window and easy to bait? To be honest it is quite hard to bait it in 4v4.
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  5. #5
    the hitokiri kick combo is highly susceptible to the bulwark flip. by that I mean the hitokiri's uncharged kick is slow enough for the black prior to flip consistently. you have to be predictable and aggressive to be getting bulwark flipped as much as you let on. you know what the hero is capable of, so slow down and feint more. the black prior is not oppressive
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  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Erhanninja Go to original post
    Soo for example as Nobu I land a light and straight go into kick and he shield flips me every single time. Same with Conq bash etc. Not sure how I'm supposed to bait it when I'm doing bash or kick.

    So all the benefits of the move is okay because it has a small window and easy to bait? To be honest it is quite hard to bait it in 4v4.
    You could bait it by not doing the bash/kick. He can't bulwark counter on reaction, he must decide that he expects a move and already be in bulwark stance to do it. If you would GB instead of doing the move, he could not cgb.

    Of course, it is an awesome tool against spammers, I just can't get enough of lawbringers who thought they can answer everything with a shove. Similarly, if someone goes for a side dodge shieldbash or a followup move every time, it becomes really easy to punish them. And against Hitokiri, this doesn't matter much anyway, same reward and risk for Bulwark as simply dodging the kick.
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  7. #7
    Soo for example as Nobu I land a light and straight go into kick and he shield flips me every single time. Same with Conq bash etc
    That's your problem. You probably do the same thing over and over again. People can punish you for that even without flip.

    if you see a BP who's happy to do flips, bait it and grab him. It' free heavy for you.

    P.S. With nobushi you can delay kick. Do light-slight pause-kick. It will catch BP too, but not every time.
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  8. #8
    KitingFatKidsEZ's Avatar Banned
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    I personally would like it to be harder to get into flip after an attack.

    Backwards light into flip/nothing is kinda ridiculous. just in general the time between attacking and going into flip is a bit silly.

    Maybe some sort of cooldown after attacking or adding more gb vulnerability after leaving the move so you can gb it on reaction and not just on guess.

    Right now its basically a higher damage dodge attack with a bigger risk involved but unlike other dodge attacks you can legit use it almost instantly after throwing any attack.
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  9. #9
    Originally Posted by KitingFatKidsEZ Go to original post
    I personally would like it to be harder to get into flip after an attack.

    Backwards light into flip/nothing is kinda ridiculous. just in general the time between attacking and going into flip is a bit silly.

    Maybe some sort of cooldown after attacking or adding more gb vulnerability after leaving the move so you can gb it on reaction and not just on guess.

    Right now its basically a higher damage dodge attack with a bigger risk involved but unlike other dodge attacks you can legit use it almost instantly after throwing any attack.
    Making it more vulnerable to GB would basically kill attempting to use the move in an outnumbered situation.
    back whiffing into anything is it's own problem that should be addressed seperately someday as it's a wide spread game issue.

    In regards to BP's flip I'd probably bring the flip damage down from 30 to 25 considering the context of TG changes.
    But aside from that and removing the ability for it to interact with feats and plunge attacks i'd probably leave it as is.

    It does have the problem of making neutral bashes less effective. But I think that's less of a problem on TG if at all compared to live.
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  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
    Making it more vulnerable to GB would basically kill attempting to use the move in an outnumbered situation.
    back whiffing into anything is it's own problem that should be addressed seperately someday as it's a wide spread game issue.

    In regards to BP's flip I'd probably bring the flip damage down from 30 to 25 considering the context of TG changes.
    But aside from that and removing the ability for it to interact with feats and plunge attacks i'd probably leave it as is.

    It does have the problem of making neutral bashes less effective. But I think that's less of a problem on TG if at all compared to live.
    I agree. On TG BPs are much more overwhelmable whilst in live, well you gotta make a read when your opponents would want to use his tools.
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