My first pick to main was Nobushi. I liked her complexity, hidden stance, everything. Until I learnt the game and starting to play against more skilled opponent. Only then I realised how lacking was her offence compared to the rest of the other roster. I couldn't light attack (they were 600ms I think back then) and kick was so easily dodgeable. Soon enough, I got frustrated and started to feel out of place when I played nobushi. Pressuring and killing opponent was so much work and not that much rewording.
So, I moved to my second choice: Aramusha. After learning him, I was able to win against many "more skilled" opponents through the use of feints and soft feints and baits into blockade. I got to rep 21, but all this time I played half of the matches I get frustrated. Not because I'd lose or something like that, but because I'd often play against heroes with more tools than I have. + combat mechanics nullified my offence mostly. If I am going for soft feint: they'd just bash me, dodge back, or dodge attack. Fair enough, I started to rely less on soft feints and more on feints, bating those dodges and dodge attacks. THEN... Shugoki got reworked. He could light attack me out of my combos and when he used his 50/50 attacks, there was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING i could but roll back. I couldn't stop him from spamming due to hyper armour, I couldn't afford to guess attacks, cause even if I succeed, all I would do is land a heavy and then the horror starts again.
Frustrated, I took a break from the game. I returned, but my taste has changed. I now prefer less spammy, slower, more methodical heroes.
I picked Highlander and now I am rep 12.
Guess what? When I fight tiandi, JJ, monk and berserker, I feel exactly the same way. They have all the tools in the world to deal with my offence and I don't have proper tools to counter them or to defend myself other than have good enough reaction to parry everything. And when I face properly skilled players, I feel like I am a child again getting bullied by my brothers with no way to fight back.
This game is amazing, but I am starting to feel that developers focus more on the new things rather than on overall balance.
At this point, I am dreading centurion rework. I wonder whose potential he will nullify completely and how much stronger he would be than older heroes who haven't been reworked (e.g. given more tools to keep up with new/updated heroes)
You're not the first person i've interacted with that feels the main(s) they have get often shafted by newer heros or changes to the general game. For the most part though I think this is just a case of some design concepts not working out.
To keep to your examples we have Shugoki. He's a staller/point hero by design. He was never designed to really have workable offense. His core was always about trading to punish you for a mistake. And his hug was his core. A decent way to get damage but also heal himself. The problem with designing a hero around trading is that it's very oppressive to fight against if it works. If trading isn't effective on the hero then he doesn't feel usable. But making trading be the main core of a hero makes your opponent slow down. And having to slow your offense because one mistake screws you isn't enjoyable. With Goki he's a decisive hero. Either you understand his kit completely and can shut out anything he tries to do. Or you are not that strong of a player. And it's a slow death for you.
Centurion is/was a problematic design. But I feel (as a centurion "main") that his rework sucessfully salvaged him. Despite my own personal issues with how he was on TG he felt a lot more fun both to play as and fight against. Aramusha and nobushi in my opinion have salvagable designs as well. Where as Goki, HL, and shinobi can't be viable as is while being healthy for the game. They need new kits.
The only busted attribute I think TG Centurion still had was his ability to floor someone in revenge. Currently on live this works regardless because his punch interrupts animations even in revenge. On TG the only time it will floor someone is if said person is not in the middle of an action. His talon's still also confirms multiple heavies from allies since it locks the person in a fixed getting up animation. And said animation doesn't have damage resistence applied to it like most other forms of CC. I'm not sure how they could fix any of that tbh.
Originally Posted by No0ne_- Go to original post
Since I mained Peacekeeper to rep 70 (51 of those after her brutal nerf in Y2), I understand your concerns. Tbh, you had very unfortunate choices when you chose your mains, the only viable one I remember is (was) Nobushi when she dominated any fight on mid, and she always sucked in 1v1. Aramusha and Nobushi are corrected in TG mostly, and as Raime said, they are, like Centurion, savable with some effort on the devs part, just like some other somewhat weak heroes like Peacekeeper (who is almost completely perfect after the newest TG changes), Orochi and Warlord. Highlander needs a new way to fight, offensive stance just can't work fairly with the super dodges and the brutal damage at the same time.
If you are not as stubborn as I am and are willing to play other mains to get the gameplay you desire, I have some suggestions.
Might be weird to hear for first, but there is Black Prior. His heavies hit relatively hard, and with the recovery cancels and Bulwark Stance, he has one of the most unique tools in the entire game. While he carries a very big shield, his offense is actually something that works, has multiple working mixups. You can be a spammer if you want to with him, but it does you no good on the long run, it only works against low level people (low level spampriors are generally down there in Noobhelheim tormenting them, if I face one, I know I lost too many duels). So, you can be the guy/girl who uses only the light-bash-light, but you can also play by using the probably most well designed offense in the game. You are certainly viable, with a tool for every situation.
There is JJ too: while not as complex as bp, his sifu offers some very good technical offense, have multiple tools, hyperarmor, unblockable, bash, softfeint dodge attack, and brutal damage (though not completely viable, miles better than all the other mains you used).
I also never heard Shaman and spamming in the same sentence. She has ridicolous amount of tools, high damage and is relatively technical (at least I don't think an Aramusha is harder to use).
Exactly, before rework, you just gotta play more defensively and parry him, after rework he's much much better, but he stomps into the ground those who doesn't have bash or dodge attack. BUT, if they do, then shugoki has hard time fighting. It's more difficult to win for them than for newer heroes.Knight_Raime
You're not the first person i've interacted with that feels the main(s) they have get often shafted by newer heros or changes to the general game. For the most part though I think this is just a case of some design concepts not working out.
To keep to your examples we have Shugoki. He's a staller/point hero by design. He was never designed to really have workable offense. His core was always about trading to punish you for a mistake. And his hug was his core. A decent way to get damage but also heal himself. The problem with designing a hero around trading is that it's very oppressive to fight against if it works. If trading isn't effective on the hero then he doesn't feel usable. But making trading be the main core of a hero makes your opponent slow down. And having to slow your offense because one mistake screws you isn't enjoyable. With Goki he's a decisive hero. Either you understand his kit completely and can shut out anything he tries to do. Or you are not that strong of a player. And it's a slow death for you.
Don't get me started on Centurion. Right now, most centurions to me are an easy win. They don't have good OOS pressure (which is weird, cause they're designed around cutscene) and the attacks are mostly obvious.
I am so stubborn in that regard that I might just quit the game if the changes go live with Highlander having 28-31 heavy damage and 600ms lights. My 2nd heavy hit damage is lower than orochi's heavy, I think. Yeah, Aramusha and Nobushi is harder to deal with now in TG. I'm glad for them, but after playing HL they feel really boring to me. HL has so many mix ups, two stances, useful emote, different playstyles. He seems very dynamic to me.Since I mained Peacekeeper to rep 70 (51 of those after her brutal nerf in Y2), I understand your concerns. Tbh, you had very unfortunate choices when you chose your mains, the only viable one I remember is (was) Nobushi when she dominated any fight on mid, and she always sucked in 1v1. Aramusha and Nobushi are corrected in TG mostly, and as Raime said, they are, like Centurion, savable with some effort on the devs part, just like some other somewhat weak heroes like Peacekeeper (who is almost completely perfect after the newest TG changes), Orochi and Warlord. Highlander needs a new way to fight, offensive stance just can't work fairly with the super dodges and the brutal damage at the same time.
If you are not as stubborn as I am and are willing to play other mains to get the gameplay you desire, I have some suggestions.
P.S. I got bp to rep7 and got really bored with him. He's strong and balanced hero, but I just got bored fast with him.
In TG, any hero with soft feints spams that attack(s). If a hero has a soft feint, I just fight on the distance and keep them away or trade with hyper armour. I am okay with guessing the attack once or twice, but not every five seconds.I also never heard Shaman and spamming in the same sentence. She has ridicolous amount of tools, high damage and is relatively technical (at least I don't think an Aramusha is harder to use).