Member
At first I was really unhappy with the changes, I have to confess I didn't understood what some players meant with "Frame Advantage" in this thread, I looked it up in the testing ground notes and found nothing.Originally Posted by chaneke33 Go to original post
Then, I found this thread:
https://forums.ubisoft.com/showthrea...hat-light-spam
With that in mind, I tried the TG again, and it was a different game. If you try to play in the TG as you always do, you're up to a bad time. You have to adapt to the new timings and mechanics, and then it is a great game.
Now I can't wait for these changes to go live.
I'm sorry Ubi, I take back what I said before, these changes are great.
Jus please, next time do something like the video in the thread before your players have the need to do it to better explain what you are doing. Communication is critical for keeping together a community.
Junior Member
Are you serious? You take an already bad character and nerf him further. Its clear that you have a bias toward Vikings, and dislike the assassins. I literally uninstalled after I read the new changes. I guess youre trying to make FH all-inclusive to slow-brained, slow-moving individuals.. I dont even know how to vent my rage in a eloquent manner because all the developers have done is nerf assassins. I guess I got my hours in before you decided to appeal to your small-**** share holders and idiots who complain about not being able to fight assassins. I will never play another game you guys develop based on this ammount of incompetence and obvious bias toward a class the developers wish to be better than all others.
Senior Member
nice usage of your brain. All assassins are actually quite buffed across the board with the changes made in TG.Originally Posted by PawnSpeek Go to original post
Senior Member
After the recent adjustments Highlanders Dmg Values still dont add up too well:
Unblockables are 31
heavy side from neutral is 28 heavy side finisher is 29.
Neutral Top heavy is 28. top heavy finisher is 24? Why the hell? Finishers are supposed to provide more damage and now the side finishers are providing more dmg even though the top is harder to land in general.
Celtic curse side is 24. I am not sure how I should feel about this one. Celtic curse is not cancelable on the sides. Sure it can sometimes be used like a dodge attack but is is usually one of the easier moves to parry-punish.
Senior Member
I've been spamming testing grounds for my grinds in the past week or so, so here's my view on it.
Pros
- It feels a lot more fluid, you're not going to meet someone who can block everything until you throw a light they can parry.
- Frame advantage means that while you are more likely to get an attack in you still can't expect to light spam when you meet anyone of any competence.
- With the last damage patch you're capable of getting revenge if you are 1vx.
Cons
- It seems to have borked up some feints, I don't know if it was always this way but it seems especially against hyperarmour feint to gb does not work. I have gone zhanhu unblockable hard feint to gb and a hitokiri stuffed it with her heavy, I went peacekeeper softfeint to gb against an aramusha and again nothing going. It feels a little unfair that an opponent can make what is essentially a bad read and still deal a heavy worth of damage
- Revenge seems inconsistent, I have sometimes blocked four or five and not gotten any, meanwhile an opponent has had a hit and a block and they have revenge up, but then it feels like this in the main game at times also.
- Everyone getting the benefit of delayed attacks takes away a skill reward, though frame advantage does a lot to make it so that game knowledge will benefit you so that is mitigated some.
Overall I very much like it and would like to see a lot of these changes if not all with them being tweaked over the next few patches put into the live game.
Senior Member
In the name of transparency.
I usually play a lot of heavies (WL and Conq the most) but is currently repping up my assassins.
I have therefore played mostly assassins (Shinobi and Nuxia) in TG, but have also tried other heroes.
I haven’t played ranked this season, but the last few times I’ve done so I’ve landed pretty stable on plat 3.
I consider myself an average, or perhaps slightly above, player. I am not competitive and have no ambition to be a grand master or “reach the top”.
I cannot parry lights on reaction and struggle with bash-heavy playstyles.
I have participated in coached scrims on Trials - that was a lot of fun and I will be doing more of it.
There are some things in this game that I have a very hard time handling, relying on my reactions is one of those.
My thoughts.
Indicators - The whole mechanic that hides the indicator for the first 100ms and makes animations more consistent is a good move, a huge step in the right direction. I’m used to relying on my reactions and so the first few days of TG was Rough City, population: me. I also played almost only assassin to make it even worse. Even then I found it a lot more fun and less frustrating than Live. After playing TG for a while now I can say that predictions have become a much more central part of my strategy and continuing playing in this kind of environment would probably make it even better.
Damage numbers - A huge part of why TG works is that damage is lower overall. Attacks are harder to defend against, but you also cannot just delete someone with a well-timed parry (no one asked you, LB). This encourages experimentation and attacking over turtling and parry-fishing. Getting parried (even as Shin) didn’t delete my entire health bar and I could land attacks more often even if I didn’t do huge amounts of damage, thus getting that unfamiliar feeling of “I actually did something”.
Stamina - Getting rid of stamina punish on blocks, misses and parries is a good first step, but it’s not perfect. Now I’m solely responsible for my own stamina (unless I’m near those heroes that can drain stamina even in TG) and that makes a far more compelling experience than getting bashed and suddenly having to back away to regain stamina every 3 seconds. It also makes fights more intense as getting a parry doesn’t force the opponent into a passive role to regain stamina, the fight could turn back into their favour at any time.
Zone attack - As one who occasionally struggles with activating ZA and will instead get a light or heavy, I must say that this change was very welcome. It works great, so far I have had no problems with this.
Feats - Feats are busted, no doubt about it. They were not balanced for the over all lower dmg. Thus direct damage-feats deal insane amounts of damage and heal feats gives you way too much healing back.
On the plus side, overly-nerfed feats are making a comeback, I’ve seen regeneration used again, and I believe that JJ’s party heal would be in a good spot right now in TG.
Also, when will we get the actual numbers on our feats? This deliberately obscure “for a short amount of time” and “medium damage”-stuff isn’t helping anyone.
Conqueror - My first try in TG was as Conq because I thought it would be interesting to try his infinite light chain in a game mode where I won’t instantly get parried and deleted for it. In Live this is an instant no-no. Throwing more than one light means lots of damage taken or even instant death against the wrong opponent. Conq in the old days was a very bash-heavy hero and after his rework he became even more bash-heavy, which frankly killed him for me as that playstyle is boring.
In TG it’s like playing an entirely different hero. The light chain serves as your base and from there you switch in a heavy, bash, heavy into bash or fullblock as you please. People complain about his overall damage being down in the ground (and the first version of TG really had too little damage on his uppercut), but I personally don’t feel this as the light chain is pretty easy to get at least two or three hits with and the possibilities for mixups has increased dramatically.
I still see other Conqs only going for the Live version of playing, and it still works, but this new way of playing has finally made Conq fun to play as.
Ledges - I don’t know if this was intended or what has been going on, but ledging seems to be a lot harder and I’ve seen (and felt) invisible walls in the middle of ledge-spots. Sometimes going so far as getting a wallsplat on empty air. It saved my life once as my enemy didn’t expect it, but it shouldn’t be like that.
500ms lights - Standardising all lights to 500ms was a good idea as we all have seen how powerful a 300ms light can be with LB in the first half of TG. However, why only standardise the lights that are faster than 500 in the Live? HL and Cent still has 600ms lights, and keeps this in TG. Missed opportunity.
Fight length - This is of course hard to measure as I hope no one is sitting at home with a timer as they play. Having lower damage values would suggest fights getting longer, but the lowered risk of getting parried and blocked would also make attacking a better strategy than turtling so… For me, fights feels good. Maybe they do take longer, but I’m also more engaged as I try to see what my opponent will do next.
Plunge attacks - These have become far more common and used. Maybe it’s players who think s lower damage will mean endless fights who are trying to cut it short, maybe it’s the fact that instant-death attacks are even more powerful than ganking now. Either way, fighting on / near some bases with plunge-opportunities is now a lot more dangerous.
Frame advantage that makes you able to dodge out of light combos - For every hero, please and thank you.
Final thoughts:
Since TG started I’ve played more FH than I have in a long time. It’s fast, fun and a lot more engaging than Live. It’s not perfect. Feats are too powerful, some heroes still needs reworks, damage values will need further tweaking. I’ve also heard players better than me talk about the downside of giving everyone auto-delayed attacks and that the complete lack of stamina punish is a step too far. I have also heard these players say that TG is For Honor 2.0.
Even with all these issues, I would absolutely play FH if the TG-build went live, and I would probably play it more than I have played it lately.
I have seen the feedback thread here, and on Reddit. I have talked to other players and listened to some of the few comp players this game still has. Here’s my wisdom - the players who are at the absolute top of this game’s community loves many of the changes. They love the fact that you now have to make predictions, that you don’t have to rely on hitstun-stacking to get damage in, that you can use more of every hero’s kit, that fights are now fights and not staring-contests and so on and so forth.
Then we have a lot of people complaining that doesn’t seem to get the point. Even in this very thread we have people complaining that they can no longer crutch on their reactions, or who try to discredit the changes by claiming to be a professional fighting game player and spreading misinformation that fighting games are not read-heavy. My belief is that these players have not understood the premise of TG and thus have failed to adapt to the new environment. Playing TG as you do in Live will be a bad experience.
If TG does go live my KDR will probably take a nosedive, I will probably not be able to reach that same level in ranked and I will be fine with that because I will be having a lot more fun.
Senior Member
The nerf on Aramusha's deadly feints to 11 dmg was a bit too much I believe. Ring the bell does 11 dmg. The deadly feints are often the base of his damage output and he has too spend a lot of stamina to get anywhere with the opponent's healthbar right now. 20 Was a bit much for the sides surely and I welcome to get equal values on all sides but I would suggest a higher damage number like 15-17.
Keep in mind that this hero's dmg is dependend on the opponent not being able to block or make a false read to land a heavy (/heavy finisher) or a gb. So in theory with observant opponents all his damage comes from chip damage and deadly feints that were too quick for the opponent to react to. In that light the 11 damage must be tackled again to give him an viable output.
He would have to use way too much of his stamina to achieve what other heros can achieve with less effort. After that he is usually very threated to be put out of stamina with a single bash and then usually easily losing the fight or in a lot of trouble which usually sets him again equal to the opponent.
Member
Banned
Love TGS - as many others i would take it over live instantly with 0 changes. Anyway..
Ill try to share some balance concerns. These are mainly for duel and i will specify its 4v4 when necessairy. Ill try to be as concise as possible.
Heavy dodge attacks are too good. 20 damage for shaman is too much off heavy dodge, Not sure what the exact value for pk is but it should be somewhere around that.
Considering its a low stamina cost move with very low risk that stops offense there needs to be more of a tradeoff here.
Light dodge attacks are perfectly fine due to light parries.
Conq zone is too good. You can use it like heavy dodges to stop chain pressure - you get a 1in3 chance of a parry and block+8 damage on everything else (including gb read) (not sure if the parry timing actually works out for 400ms chains) - only gets beaten by parry which is heavy. Costs almost no stamina.
Conq/LB dodge bash are problematic due to the same reasons as heavy dodges. Do less damage tho. Not punishable for a handful of characters. Debateable. Not entirely decided on dodge bash out of chain.
Conq fullblock does too much damage at 24. Its very easy to get and it does soo much damage. This has to be lowered - as it is its kinda insane.
I said this way back - only reducing damage benefits heavies the most - if damage is lower every point of health becomes MORE valuable. (though i certainly see some power level changes in damage dealt that are ever so slightly favoring assassins which is very nice)
This makes heavies stronger - regardless of what reddit tells you. Especially perks are a problem. Jormungandrs healing/shield feats + perks are a huge problem and one of the reasons he is as insane as he is in 4v4. Because of the high power level of hyperarmor - bash is again very strong because its the only appropriate counterplay. Both mostly prevalent on heavies.
All enhanced lights became much better as it is much harder to tell the difference between light/heavy by the time you have to parry for lights. This is again especially a problem o Jorm due to his armor heavies/enhanced lights + high pressure on the 2nd move in chain. A lot of people complain about pk because of this reason imo. On bleed you cant stop her pressure by just blocking. I dont think this needs to be addressed on pk but on Jorm its a pretty big issue.
>Good< berserkers are straight up broken in duel. I legit dont see how you beat them without bash and even then its not free by any means. The combination of hyperarmor + 300ms omnidirectional soft feinted hyperarmor lights + dodging out of heavies/heavy recoveries end up making the char crazy good in the right hands.
Raider is brutal to deal with. Maybe i overrate this character but in solo queue 4v4 his ability to clear minions insanely fast by spamming lights + press gb to gank added to his crazy soft feint make him very good in my opinion - if someone has a way to deal with it id love to hear it. see below
Soft feints are very good. Most of them are fine , the only that seems overtuned to me is Raiders hyperarmor chain heavy/GB/storming tap mixup. Costs almost no stamina. Dodge attack trades unfavourably with heavy and raider continues his chain, gets beaten by gb. The timing/range on the heavy is really off from the light making it very hard to iframe through both and on empty dodge he just continues his mixup anyway + you lose to gb.
Missed attacks costing no stamina. Not a huge fan of this change specifically. This means that a handful of characters can access their chains off backwards light for basically no cost all the time (specifically Raider Jorm, JJ because of their huge forward movement on chains and a bunch of characters that arent good and therefore dont matter like orochi and kensei). You cant stop backwards light on almost all characters. Forcing you to pretty much deal with chain pressure at all times.
Last but no least running attack gb (ledge / gank tools) from raider and warlord feel really off. First of all if these got the flat -100ms to their animation/indicator (not actually sure they did) they are back to being 500ms which were nerfed for being too silly. I got grabbed on what i think would be correct timing on live multiple times - might just be that my timing is off by 100ms but the indicator/animations are the same. Really not sure.
Junior Member
