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  1. #21
    Ok, so, yo this changes I only have one question:
    Do you even play your game on every platform available or just on PC?
    Light spam is already difficult to react to on console and you are making it virtually impossible to do it.
    You're so avid of newcomers that you place the game in a point of "0 ability to win" state.
    It's clear that, at this point, you have no idea on how to improve your game.
    Balance in a fighting game means that two players of the same skill level have 50-50 chance of winning no matter the character they choose, and you are failing at achieving that in this game, and this is not the way to do it.
    You should fix basic mechanics in the game first, like Revenge and Targeting, instead of experimenting changes like these ones.
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  2. #22
    So it looks like I'm going to be one of the few who likes these changes...I agree that the turtle meta will take a hit if this is implemented, which is a direction this game has always been striving for. Personally I feel like game modes in the live version are too focused on defense...even in dominion the game turns into "who can block or parry the most" with only a few select characters as exceptions.

    The new tech reduces this atmosphere greatly. Yes, light attacks are easier to hit, but I've always felt like spam is more of the defenders problem for not adapting rather than the attacker for using something that works. That isn't to say that there aren't any attacks that are overtuned. And the new changes don't make it completely unreactable. I can still parry opener lights if I know the opponent is going to try it, which I think is more rewarding than just simply reacting to everything your opponent does. There needs to be a balance between prediction and reactability, and this brings them together better than live by making more chains useful.

    Light spam will always be a complaint with this game. It's frustrating at times I'll admit, but not unbeatable by any means. Again, I don't think it's really the attackers fault for using a tactic that's in the game. It should be countered if they are blatantly spamming.

    The damage changes I think are all over the place and don't make much sense in most areas. Conqs top and full guard counter do the same as a light and other "heavy" characters had their heavies nerfed into the dirt for some reason as well.

    As for stamina, some changes seem nice, though it does feel like it can be hard to lose stamina at times as an attacker. However, it feels refreshing after losing 75% of your stamina from one heavy parry in live.

    Metas change, and I think the turtle method has been slowly creeping back into the game for a while now. This sets it back a good pace.
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  3. #23
    I'd like to add that I do play on pc, and I know this will make it even harder for console. But I still would like these changes to go through.
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  4. #24
    Imo :
    1/ Stamina changes are great. This is actually good changes for people playing agressively.

    2/ Dmg : i would say why not but then you should work on a proper and smarter balancing. The current changes proposals are hitting too hard some heroes.. some of them still have high dmg profil as PK or Shaman while some got really wrecked. So it should be seriously adjusted.

    3/ 100ms hidden animation/indicators. I gess this turns PC into a state where defending require a mix between good reaction and reads which is good and was already how was console for a long time now.

    In the opposite console version is now entirely based on reads or pure gess for some players.

    So i would not say it is a LOT harder, it is a bit harder and can be dealt with. But tbh it is a very, very poor way to "improve" offense.
    It is an extremely lazy solution.
    Improving offense, yes i will sign. But not like that.. why ?
    -This system is encouring people to not even trying some mix up gameplay but just spam as nobrains
    -This system is reducing a part of the game skills
    -This system is reducing the gap between newcomers and veterans

    So, i can adapt to this and play the game in this state even on console if this go live.
    But frankly, it looks like a cheap FH and lost the satisfaction it can bring to a player = spam, use frame advantage and option select for the win.

    For PC, these changes are good i gess.. which make me think, would you consider doing those changes only for PC ? (Yeah, it is a stupid utopist question).
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  5. #25

    You basically removed the 'mind games' aspect

    Making everything faster and letting us delay feints doesnt do any favors for the game. I dont think any new players will wanna play this version
    Might be cool as a hardcode mode but dont make the whole game like this (testing grounds)...
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  6. #26

    Option selects are now the only option.

    Lets remove the mind games aspect entirely for option select gaming

    You basically changed option selects into your only option.
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  7. #27
    I've been playing for a long time. I think right now, the game is in an amazing state. People attack, people defend, and there are ways to open people up for a lot of characters.

    I play on PS4. 400ms lights are fast, but not unreactable. BUT... I still have to make a read if I want to parry them. If they throw out a heavy or faint to GB after I fall for light attack timing, I'm going to eat the heavy or get GB'd. That's how mixups work. These changes absolutely do not encourage mixups. As a matter of fact, heavies don't even need to be thrown in the Testing Grounds. All of these 300ms indicators are simply too fast to block for about 90%-95% of the time, and UNLESS you're already blocking in the direction of the light attack, you won't get the parry. I knew it sounded bad on paper, and I knew it would be bad in game.

    I don't typically play duels, now I'll never play duels. Not being able to parry and defend against a weak and simple lightspam is pretty bad for a fight system, because I think a game needs reactable lights in order for there to be mixups. If lights are so hard to parry, then there is no need to ever throw out anything other than a light. That is now the case on console in these testing grounds. It would theoretically be rewarding to parry someone who only throws lights. You know, punishing someone for being stupid and not mixing it up. If people want to be stupid and let themselves get parried by being predictable, that is definitely their fault. It pays to be unpredictable, and Ubi wants to get rid of that and make lights faster. This makes this game very braindead.

    It's so difficult that it isn't even worth trying to parry lights anymore. Just try your best to block and get more attacks off than your opponent.

    That's awful gameplay design. There needs to be a balance of offense and defense. Even if I know a light is coming, I can't stop it in the testing grounds. That's terrible. I don't think Ubi's understanding of a 'read' is the same as ours. A read is an attack you can predict from common behavior of the character design and the player behavior. If I know a player is going to throw a light, I'll try my best to parry it. If I know they're gonna throw a zone, I'll try my best to parry it. If I know they're gonna wanna bash, I'll dodge that crap. In the testing grounds, however, even if you really know someone's going to throw a light, you have to guess which direction it's going to come from, otherwise you're going to be late every single time unless you're just trying to block.

    The game feels very very cheesy and braindead. The stamina changes are whatever in my opinion, as they just enhance how bad faster lights are.

    Everyone likes attacking, but now it's basically twice as hard to run out of stamina. This, along with faster lights, promotes getting more attacks off than your opponent as quick as possible. And guess what? Getting parried doesn't penalize you anymore, so players are just going to try and interrupt you if you throw anything other than a chained light.

    Dominion is a reall s**t show. The only thing people can parry are heavies, so don't even bother throwing those out anymore. Everybody's getting hit with everything, and are constantly doing panick dodges or pushing random crap to maybe stop the opponent's onslaught. I feel the changes have literally removed some of the skill and brought even good players to the level of an amateur.
    Amateurs and beginners cannot be punished for throwing out lights nonstop, and that's terrible.

    I just don't know what else to say. I know Ubi has made some stupid decisions before, but this has got to be the very worst idea I've ever seen from them. This would be a big step backwards, and I KNOW there are other ways to solve turtle problems...

    This is very lazy of Ubi, and I hope they think twice about these changes I would move on if these went live, because the bottom line here is that there is less skill and more things not worth doing. It's just not fun, and I can see a good majority of other players agree that these changes would bring the game to a very unenjoyable state.
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  8. #28
    Hello, you can call me Ryan but I am actually a very prolific fighting game player and I'd like to remain anonymous in that regard atleast.

    I play Street Fighter 5 professionally and with what experience I do have, I can tell you that no good fighting game is 'Really read heavy.' Which unfortunately seems to be what you are thinking For Honor should be and I still can't understand why.

    Reads are good and fine, but the problem is that in any good fighting game, reads should ALWAYS fall into one or two categories. Obviously, this isn't always the case, but this is an ideal.

    1. Reads should be risk/reward based.

    2. Forcing your opponent to guess should be a reward. IE. off of a knockdown in traditional fighting games or as a reward for performing something. In For Honor's case, I'd say this is parrying.

    The problem with what you're doing is you're taking something that has no risk. I.E. a light attack, ramping up the difficulty to parry and creating a read based system off of an area of the game that takes no risk. This is an ATROCIOUS idea as far as competitive games go. What is going to happen is you're going to turn the game into a light spam fest because the lowest common denominator of what you can do in this game (light attacking) is borderline unreactable.

    When something is unreactable, fast and easily spammable, it takes skill away from the game. READING is not the same skill base as actual reactions. Reading should be something that is done sparingly with a high risk and high reward OR as a reward for putting them in various situations. By turning the base-line of the game into 'More read heavy' you're essentially making this game a slot machine in fights and are going to find that many people are unhappy, particularly console players that already have a hard time parrying as it is. You will lose money, player base and the game will devolve.

    You're taking away agency from people who practice this game and their reactions by making light attacks harder to react to. You're closing the skill-gap by making a light spamming newcomer able to compete with a veteran player. This is bad design.
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  9. #29
    King_of_Xibalba's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by ImRyanGosling Go to original post
    Hello, you can call me Ryan but I am actually a very prolific fighting game player and I'd like to remain anonymous in that regard atleast.

    I play Street Fighter 5 professionally and with what experience I do have, I can tell you that no good fighting game is 'Really read heavy.' Which unfortunately seems to be what you are thinking For Honor should be and I still can't understand why.

    Reads are good and fine, but the problem is that in any good fighting game, reads should ALWAYS fall into one or two categories. Obviously, this isn't always the case, but this is an ideal.

    1. Reads should be risk/reward based.

    2. Forcing your opponent to guess should be a reward. IE. off of a knockdown in traditional fighting games or as a reward for performing something. In For Honor's case, I'd say this is parrying.

    The problem with what you're doing is you're taking something that has no risk. I.E. a light attack, ramping up the difficulty to parry and creating a read based system off of an area of the game that takes no risk. This is an ATROCIOUS idea as far as competitive games go. What is going to happen is you're going to turn the game into a light spam fest because the lowest common denominator of what you can do in this game (light attacking) is borderline unreactable.

    When something is unreactable, fast and easily spammable, it takes skill away from the game. READING is not the same skill base as actual reactions. Reading should be something that is done sparingly with a high risk and high reward OR as a reward for putting them in various situations. By turning the base-line of the game into 'More read heavy' you're essentially making this game a slot machine in fights and are going to find that many people are unhappy, particularly console players that already have a hard time parrying as it is. You will lose money, player base and the game will devolve.

    You're taking away agency from people who practice this game and their reactions by making light attacks harder to react to. You're closing the skill-gap by making a light spamming newcomer able to compete with a veteran player. This is bad design.
    Totally correct.
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  10. #30
    ahora si te pasaste ubisoft le quieres dar oportunidad de ganar a los nuevos por encima de los experimentados y quieres que el juego se base unicamente en el light spam y bloquear es muy dificil y hacer parry o deflect es imposible por favor da marcha atras y no la vallas a regar
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