I'm failing to see why Peacekeeper is considered a counter attacker or viable in H L | Forums

[King_of_Xibalba]

Her stacking bleed “special ability” really just makes her already low damage come out over time so not as good as just doing the damage up front (except in the rare case an opponent has little hp) She does not have any real benefit for it.

Her parry punish is poor (compared with Orochi or most assasins)

Her 400ms soft feint is ok but compare with zerks 400ms soft feint. Pks does less damage and comes from one direction and ends her chain.

She has no range, In fact is atrocious.

Her lunge is weak (compared with shaman or Orochi)

Her dodge attacks are weak (compared with tiandi, Kensei, Orochi, or shaman)their tracking, recovery and range being the root of why they are

Her deflect sucks compared to other deflects, but is her most damaging move.

She has a fast zone with a good option select, but that has limits to its utility. Her zone is still worse than conqueror or glads though.

Without the zone she would be the worst character in the game. As it is you can’t win against anyone who can block lights consistently.

A counter attacker is more like a lawbro with his high damage punishes and static guard. She does not have any of these.

Sorry for bad grammar.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I think it means that you disrupt some mixup like the SB mixup of Wardens by just throwing a zone. Well, conqueror is Hardhitter, those things don't matter much.

I mostly agree, but she has one more redeeming quality: her dodge attacks are the most damaging ones, 28 damage against a bash is very good. She also has the most softfeint from a heavy, though they are not very effective.

[wolfocezosu]

Things like this is why in my 15 duels to get a rank today i fought 6 Lb 5 Raiders 4 other heroes.

[King_of_Xibalba]

Things like this is why in my 15 duels to get a rank today i fought 6 Lb 5 Raiders 4 other heroes.

I think it means that you disrupt some mixup like the SB mixup of Wardens by just throwing a zone. Well, conqueror is Hardhitter, those things don't matter much.

I mostly agree, but she has one more redeeming quality: her dodge attacks are the most damaging ones, 28 damage against a bash is very good. She also has the most softfeint from a heavy, though they are not very effective.

Yeah, it doesn't matter too much for a Hard Hitter, basically he is better overall. I just put the example to reflect the handicap against our beloved main.

I agree on the use of the dodge attack , I do the dodge attack often against jorm or bp and when I read correctly, to punish the shoulder bash... I agree that is an adecuate tool but apart from that I think we Pk mains are agree that a misread using the dodge attack is very severe in our diminished hp pool... Well any misread with her is almost lethal haha!

I love her but is a tough love.

Btw testing grounds presented a New model of meta, based on more delayed inputs for everyone to make the game more offensive, it would be great the input of you both.

Sorry for the bad English.

[King_of_Xibalba]

Things like this is why in my 15 duels to get a rank today i fought 6 Lb 5 Raiders 4 other heroes.

We are a dying breed. But when you win over a competent raider or lawbro you Know you are really good.

I don't like to be perceived as a whiny dude but every new rep I get with her the difficulty raises too much exponentially. I mean, really when I get a rep with my hito is almost a little Children's game.

[Knight_Raime]

I don't particularly feel like arguing each point made here. Nothing against you or anything but it's just exhausting to do sometimes.
I will say though that the role of "counter attacker" is a flawed role conceptually. It's a thing people do. Not a specific style of play. Trying to make it it's own style of play is basically what born the hero LB. Which is the embodiment of everything wrong with FH.

That being said, PK once did fill this "style" as good as LB currently does on live. She had the best back dash distance. Her dodge attacks were also amongst the fastest and safest. She of course had her very strong 400ms zone stuffing tool. And she had her insane damage profile. Much of this was stripped away as the more weird parts of FH were taken out or normalized. So for about a year or so she was a shell of her former self.

Current day PK is pretty viable. Yes she still lacks strong pressure on live. yes she still lacks a true opener. And yes, it can be difficult for her to get going. but she's still quite decent. Outside a few QoL changes I wouldn't change much for her.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I don't particularly feel like arguing each point made here. Nothing against you or anything but it's just exhausting to do sometimes.
I will say though that the role of "counter attacker" is a flawed role conceptually. It's a thing people do. Not a specific style of play. Trying to make it it's own style of play is basically what born the hero LB. Which is the embodiment of everything wrong with FH.

That being said, PK once did fill this "style" as good as LB currently does on live. She had the best back dash distance. Her dodge attacks were also amongst the fastest and safest. She of course had her very strong 400ms zone stuffing tool. And she had her insane damage profile. Much of this was stripped away as the more weird parts of FH were taken out or normalized. So for about a year or so she was a shell of her former self.

Current day PK is pretty viable. Yes she still lacks strong pressure on live. yes she still lacks a true opener. And yes, it can be difficult for her to get going. but she's still quite decent. Outside a few QoL changes I wouldn't change much for her.

I disagree on the viability part. She is not that weak as she could be, but she really suffers from multiple weaknesses: clumsy dodge attacks, no flow/momentum, low damage, low range, low health, no opener, bad stamina management. She is also bad for everything but rotations in team modes (not the best there either), and anyone with second wind is immune to her offense. She is not viable at all, she is just not as thrash as she used to be.

However, I don't think she needs big buffs either. I run a topic with ideas, basically any two of them would correct her.

PS: it is hilarious how broken she is in tg. Her numbers would even be a bit too high in the live game, but there, she is a god.

[King_of_Xibalba]

I disagree on the viability part. She is not that weak as she could be, but she really suffers from multiple weaknesses: clumsy dodge attacks, no flow/momentum, low damage, low range, low health, no opener, bad stamina management. She is also bad for everything but rotations in team modes (not the best there either), and anyone with second wind is immune to her offense. She is not viable at all, she is just not as thrash as she used to be.

However, I don't think she needs big buffs either. I run a topic with ideas, basically any two of them would correct her.

PS: it is hilarious how broken she is in tg. Her numbers would even be a bit too high in the live game, but there, she is a god.

Totally agree.

[King_of_Xibalba]

I don't particularly feel like arguing each point made here. Nothing against you or anything but it's just exhausting to do sometimes.
I will say though that the role of "counter attacker" is a flawed role conceptually. It's a thing people do. Not a specific style of play. Trying to make it it's own style of play is basically what born the hero LB. Which is the embodiment of everything wrong with FH.

That being said, PK once did fill this "style" as good as LB currently does on live. She had the best back dash distance. Her dodge attacks were also amongst the fastest and safest. She of course had her very strong 400ms zone stuffing tool. And she had her insane damage profile. Much of this was stripped away as the more weird parts of FH were taken out or normalized. So for about a year or so she was a shell of her former self.

Current day PK is pretty viable. Yes she still lacks strong pressure on live. yes she still lacks a true opener. And yes, it can be difficult for her to get going. but she's still quite decent. Outside a few QoL changes I wouldn't change much for her.

Mostly agree I saw the videos when pk were op and yes it was needed to tone her down.

But surely, now She is a noob Stomper, but I disagree about her viability in high level playing.

In my experience playing with my other mains Zerk, Glad, raider, hito is much much easy and I sweat much less. Hito is like a cheat code after playing with her.

To the point of feeling a lot of stress just by playing her, surrounded by 150- 200 reps dudes using BP, Wardens or LB's.

Don't get me wrong I keep winning at such odds even if I am a merely 34 rep dude. But now my K/D ratio at 20 rep with her got down to 2.58 from 4 something . And sometimes high level players just erase me from all the match. They are invariably premium chars or s tiers.

While with my other mains is 3.50 to 3.84 vs the same HLevel players, only her is getting trashed real Hard. So She is the Least viable without a doubt.

Saddly I love her and will never quit from her.

PD. I never play matches against bots.

[Knight_Raime]

I disagree on the viability part. She is not that weak as she could be, but she really suffers from multiple weaknesses: clumsy dodge attacks, no flow/momentum, low damage, low range, low health, no opener, bad stamina management. She is also bad for everything but rotations in team modes (not the best there either), and anyone with second wind is immune to her offense. She is not viable at all, she is just not as thrash as she used to be.

However, I don't think she needs big buffs either. I run a topic with ideas, basically any two of them would correct her.

PS: it is hilarious how broken she is in tg. Her numbers would even be a bit too high in the live game, but there, she is a god.

Pk has not had low damage since her last intentional adjustment where they allowed her to have the enhanced property with lights on bleeding targets.
She does indeed not have strong dodge attacks in terms of safety. But she's hardly the outlier here. Most assassins do not have good dodge attacks.
Any kit that relies on soft feint usage is going to struggle stamina wise due to how they calculate the cost. It's an even bigger issue on pk due to how her zone is encouraged. However they specifically made that cheaper too. So, I would agree that her stamina management game isn't particularly great. But there are certainly other heros who have a much worse time.
I'd also argue she has momentum now. The enhanced property via bleed and her recovery buffs both with deflect and her finishers has made it feel like she's continuing to chain after landing bleed hits despite them not being actual combos. I wouldn't go as far to say PK is a great hero now. but she's certainly really decent right now. And potentially good if most of the TG of her stays.

Mostly agree I saw the videos when pk were op and yes it was needed to tone her down.

But surely, now She is a noob Stomper, but I disagree about her viability in high level playing.

In my experience playing with my other mains Zerk, Glad, raider, hito is much much easy and I sweat much less. Hito is like a cheat code after playing with her.

To the point of feeling a lot of stress just by playing her, surrounded by 150- 200 reps dudes using BP, Wardens or LB's.

Don't get me wrong I keep winning at such odds even if I am a merely 34 rep dude. But now my K/D ratio at 20 rep with her got down to 2.58 from 4 something . And sometimes high level players just erase me from all the match. They are invariably premium chars or s tiers.

While with my other mains is 3.50 to 3.84 vs the same HLevel players, only her is getting trashed real Hard. So She is the Least viable without a doubt.

Saddly I love her and will never quit from her.

PD. I never play matches against bots.

Hito feels like an easy button because despite the information existing out there how to reaction counter her mix up from blocking a heavy (on most of the cast) people still do not employ it. If you are aware of how to do this on your given hero(s) then she's a lot less threatening and becomes more of a joke. Zerk is better than her so that really shouldn't be a surprise. Glad is also "babies first gank" with some busted attributes. So again yeah, makes sense. And i've honestly no clue why you're finding more success with raider over pk. Sure he has one mix up that forces a reaction. But he can't continually use it and has no chain pressure. He's got more value in 4's than her. So I guess if you're speaking from that perspective fair enough.

I liken pk to be similar to say shaolin or Nuxia. All 3 heros have value. All 3 heros have some shining aspects. But all 3 have to work relatively hard (on live anyway,) in order to truly outplay someone. I feel TG has made this gap so to speak much shorter for these heros. Like. I want more to be done to her as well. But the time of making the "pk bad pls up doot" meme is well over. She's no longer trash. She's quite capable and has been since her last adjustment.