Orochi Rework | Feat & Moveset Changes | Forums

[Okt0g00N]

First of all, yes i know he is kinda strong and kinda weak at the same time, but the devs seem to kinda lack ideas to do so or vital information about what's going on, now you may say "Other heroes than cent and shinobi? Unacceptable" and it's true but it's also not my job to deliver them, we know they are coming so giving out a rework plan on them is just wasting your time, so better focus on heroes with problematic designs.
Goal of this rework is to make him more tanky and hold his own, less problematic speed for console players but more survivability, complexity and offense.

Orochi

Light Attack | Chains

Double Top Light - Removed

Damage (on top) light increased to 16|12

Light are now enhanced

Speed standardized to 500ms except for 2nd lights

(2nd Lights) Now deal 18|12 damage

(2nd Lights) Are now 466ms|400ms

Chains - Chain - L-L-L plus L-L-H and H-L-L removed, added chain H-H-H and L-L-H-H, finisher lights are removed.

Dodge attacks now count as heavy|light attacks

Dodge attacks are now enchanced

Speed (on side) dodge attacks sped up to 533ms|600ms

Damage (on side) dodge attacks increased to 20|17

Damage (on top) dodge attacks increased to 25|17

Undodgeable property removed (on both)

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Heavy Attacks | Chains

(Top) Heavy guardbreak vulnerability increased to 400ms|100ms

Speed (on side) decreased to 700ms|800ms

Speed (on side finisher) decreased to 633ms|800ms

Speed (on top finisher) decreased to 633ms|700ms

Damage (on both finisher & starter) standardized to 32|30/35

(3rd Heavy) is unblockable with either a (360 animation(side) or (jumping, through the back then above the head sword movement attack(top)
Dealing 37(side) and 40(top) damage, (top) is undodgeable.

Top Finisher is 833ms

Side Finisher is 700ms

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Special Additions

Soft-Feinting Heavy > Guardbreak is now an option for all heavies.

Recovery canceling with ANY attack is now possible by dodging

Can now animation cancel heavy chain starters by dodging

(Passive) Windflow Technique All deflect timings increased to 266ms|133/200

Damage (on heavy deflect) lowered to 33|50

Damage (on light deflect) lowered to 28|35

Heavy deflects now count as the (2nd Heavy)

Health increased to 125|120

Stamina increased to 130|120

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Feats (Global Changes) and (Orochi Feat Changes)

Slip Through - Damage bonus decreased to 30%|40%

Slip Through - Now heals for 10% of damage done within that 1.5 second time window

Sharpen Blade - Removed and replaced with "Second Wind"

Revengeful Attacks - Removed and replaced with "Thick Skin"

Thick Skin - Now reduced the damage of the first attack taken by 20%|0% and the following by 30%|25%, cooldown reduced to 3s|5s

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TL;DR
Increased pressure by 1) Increased complexity, allowing for more choices and 2) Increasing raw numbers to better fit him in the current speed meta, while also trying to relieve some anger from console players by capping some speeds at certain thresholds.
Changed "slip through" to heal a bit but also have to compete with "second wind" which took the place of "sharpen blade"
And at tier 2, removed "revengeful attacks" due to it being too good and replaced it with an improved "thick skin" that should not only impact orochi's survivability but all heroes with that feat.
Increased his health and stamina pool overall to allow for some risky plays and lowered deflect damage adding a buff in contrast making deflects much easier on orochi, promoting it should be his main defensive tool.
Aimed Tier for this rework would be A tier or S tier if he is too powerful.

[Athaeme]

I disagree with most of the feat changes, second wind is band in tournaments for a reason another assassin doesn't need it, I think he could get auto revive (renamed last stand) as I feel like it suits his character

[Okt0g00N]

I disagree with most of the feat changes, second wind is band in tournaments for a reason another assassin doesn't need it, I think he could get auto revive (renamed last stand) as I feel like it suits his character

that's right, i tried to make him somewhat more tanky than others, at least that's what i tried in this rework plan, now i might be completely off as i don't main him but the "thick skin" passive thing which reduces damage will affect all heroes with that feat such as peacekeeper and warlord.
auto revive is quite problematic but it could compete with fear itself and replace arrow storm for sure.

make sure to check the moveset tell me more about what i said right and wrong, im looking to get a better understand of each hero and each hero's players

[Knight_Raime]

Don't particularly agree with the feat changes. Slip through's problem is that it applies to traps. Making things like Nail bomb one hit kill Lawbringer at full health. I don't find revenge attacks to really be an issue. It used to be prior to it's nerfing. Now it's kinda just meh. I disagree about giving him second wind. If he must have a heal feat (and this goes for all heros) it should be the friendship banner. Second wind should probably be reworked to do something else entirely. or at the very least not allow it to cleanse status effects with a nerfed heal amount. His only other problamatic feat is Kiai. Which i've been saying forever should just be reworked to be single target.


As for the rework itself. Theres some I like. And some I don't like. I absolutely disagree with removing chains. I'm fine with the removal of double light. As it no longer serves purpose really. You can maybe make for the case in warden's situation. But still. I don't think it out weighs the fact that double light needs to be buffered to work. If you mess up somehow and the first whiffs it's just free parry bait. Light finishers should be enhanced. I don't think all lights need to be enhanced. Especially if we're making opener heavies more usable. I don't agree with making anything in his kit slower.

I can only assume you want to make his side dodge lights count as heavies for parry purposes. We just need to remove light parry punishes from the game. Making his final heavy unblockable doesn't seem particularly strong since you've seemingly removed any quick access to it aside from deflecting. If the goal is to make him have external pressure you're still not going to have much if you need to get to your third chain finisher for it. Also seems like you made an undodgable unblockable via the top chain heavy finisher. That's a no go.

Giving his soft feint to gb is interesting. But I don't see how it would be beneficial for anything outside his finishers. It would make more sense if you had something to force a dodge in those earlier instances or they were chargable with the ability to threaten something. I agree that dodge canceling for recoveries should exist for him on most if not all of his attacks. Same should be said for all assassins truthfully. Not sure about dodge canceling openers. Doesn't really seem to fit. Finishers sure.

I understand the damage nerf on his deflects. Truthfully his deflect is dated and is mechanically a mess. Making his heavy deflect count as a second heavy in chain is certainly interesting. Might give people more incentive to go for it over the guaranteed light deflect. I think he and all assassins should have more than one deflect option. And should have the ability to recover from deflect attacks as fast as shaman can.


Overall i'm not entirely sure of the direction of this rework. It's not 100% bad. But it's certainly not the direction I'd take Orochi if we were looking at making Major changes to his kit.