The mines that toolshed drops and the same mine dropped by the Chomper card generate too much value. The amount of damage in addition to the freeze make these mines effectively a lightning bolt set on your side of the field. They’re a pseudo-cancel card.
As an example, most warriors that are hit with a mine from either source are killed before the freeze ends.
As another example, a level 4 chomper kills a level 6 Dougie - generating a 2 energy advantage even though the card is the same rarity and is two levels lower.
Toolshed can generate 2-3 mines per life. He will place the mine in front of him in whatever direction he is facing. In theory, that means Toolshed can hit anything that he is attacking directly with a mine. This is almost like as if hookhand Clyde traded his ranged ability warcry for a melee ranged charged ability. It’s very, very strong.
Are there any plans to tune this accordingly?
At the very least the chomper should kill a Dougie of equal level, not if it is 2 levels lower. Toolshed’s charge should probably be slower also.
I have never had any problems with Chomper or Toolshed, when facing off against SH decks. He is not THAT powerful. I'd say he is just powerful enough for an epic, and the Chomper is no problem either. Yes, it's cheaper than a Lightning Bolt, but unlike a Lightning Bolt, you know exactly where it is, so you can avoid it. Also when playing against SH, you should expect your opponent might have it in their deck, and strategize accordingly.Originally Posted by Mamey0 Go to original post
Also, a Dougie is SUPPOSED to be fragile. He's a high-risk high-reward card. It's actually funny to hear someone on the forums complaining about a counter to Dougie, when most complaints involving Dougie are the other way around, wanting Dougie to be nerfed!!!
Agreed, toolshed's chomper is a really fun feature of the card and is what makes him effective and interesting. His chomper placement is also very predictable, so if he's managing to take out your dougie with it, you need to work on timing and placement. The only way that play is going to happen is if you send a dougie straight at him when he's already 3/4 charged.
Just don't do that.
Actually, I think the Dougie counter he refers to is not Toolshed, but the standalone Chomper trap for 2 energy. Drop it in Dougie's path, and he's as good as beat.Originally Posted by camelchasers Go to original post
I have no problem with that. Dougie has several counters, spreading across all themes. This is why you need to be more conservative with Dougie usage, otherwise you're going to have a bad time! Be thankful that all Chomper does is kill your Dougie. Most other counters leave your opponent with a unit on the field, or even with your own Dougie charging your NK!
If you aren’t seeing the problem with a Level 4 chomper removing a level 6 Dougie I dont know what else to say. They’re both rare and chomper already yields a 2 energy advantage. At the very least it should be tuned so that an equal level is needed to removed the Dougie.
And you *cant* really avoid toolshed’s mines because you can’t control your card’s movement, only their placement. If you send out a couple of cards, the Toolshed user just lines up accordingly. And because cards attack the nearest enemy your cards will move towards Toolshed. Between the damage and the freeze and maybe a ranged card to back him up, each mine is a guaranteed kill on a warrior or ranged class card. I actually just had it where a Toolshed removed my SMW and a BEB in the same life. You don’t see a problem with that? No wonder the game is so poorly balanced. Nobody has any idea what fair value is. Let me spell it out for you: toolshed in that instance generated 6 energy worth of value for the cost of 4 (net 2 gain) AND is a warrior left on the field. Its extremely valuable and takes no skill to use effectively.
He isn’t a high risk high reward card anymore. He doesn’t even take a bar from a level 21 NK at max level 6 anymore. He’s far riskier than he is rewarding. A blind grandmother playing SPPD can effectively counter a Dougie at this point. He’s been over nerfed, or probably nerfed in the wrong way. Complaints crying to nerf Dougie at this point are just bad players being bad.Originally Posted by Cural42 Go to original post
Toolshed is really strong. A really good card. SH need to have good cards, or else nobody will see the point in using it and we will have a wasted theme and get plssed off when we get cards for this wasted theme.
But is he too strong? What dictates a card being too strong? Because the generally consensus is that SOMM isn't too strong even though his ability is a fireball for the entire board which can be reloaded very fast when paired with Santa, Hankey, or both. Toolshed only puts down 1 chomper at a time (2 energy value), and only wherever he is (chomper can be placed anywhere which decreases Toolshed's chomper value a bit). Most of the time when I play Toolshed, I get down 2 chompers on my side that just run out of time and disappear, doing nothing for me, so he can't really be too difficult to counter. On top of that, anything that powerbinds renders Toolshed fairly powerless.
Then when it comes to just the chomper, SH has no removal. The only other counter you can use when seeing a Dougie while having a hand with SH cards is Chaos, and that better be a super accurate Chaos... or possibly Wonder Tweek, but apart from word of mouth I count account for the effectiveness of that.
On top of everything nobody really likes Dougie who doesn't play Dougie. So another reason to make people not play Dougie is a reason to cheer. This may be where my opinion comes in a little biased... but then again I am defending SH and I don't play or really care for the theme.
The value of a card isn’t based in it’s theoretical cost like you mention it’s based on how much damage it does to an enemy and by extension the value it generates. So, no, toolshed’s chompers aren’t a 2 energy value. If they kill a 3 cost warrior and they cost zero energy, they’re a 3 energy net value. If they kill a 4 cost warrior it’s worth 4 energy net. Then you account for the cost of toolshed, as he is a 4 cost.Originally Posted by Cural42 Go to original post
In my example, I noted that BEB and SMW were removed by toolshed’s chomper. Toolshed cost 4 energy to their 6. That’s a net 2 energy gain and in addition you have a warrior left out on the field that is in and of itself value. The overall value of a play like that is easily +4 energy. That’s huge.
Not every counter to a card needs to be an equal energy trade-off. Some counters are going to be costly, some will get you an energy advantage, some will be even trade. It would be a boring game if you could never counter your opponent's actions without spending at least as much as he did.Originally Posted by Mamey0 Go to original post
I was referring to the already placed Chompers that Toolshed leaves strewn behind him, which you can avoid by placing your units where they don't run across it. Or you can disable them with your own Toolshed, or just deactivate it by running over it with Tupperware.And you *cant* really avoid toolshed’s mines because you can’t control your card’s movement, only their placement. If you send out a couple of cards, the Toolshed user just lines up accordingly.
Rare are the times you'll get more than one useful Chomper out during battle. Most of the time, he gets killed by the enemy after only his first chomper.And because cards attack the nearest enemy your cards will move towards Toolshed. Between the damage and the freeze and maybe a ranged card to back him up, each mine is a guaranteed kill on a warrior or ranged class card.
Sounds like he's either very talented or lucky to get the second one off. Good for him! I don't see why it's a problem. Some you win, some you lose. So you lost that one, it doesn't mean you need to suddenly go on a nerfing spree, just buck up and win the next one!!I actually just had it where a Toolshed removed my SMW and a BEB in the same life. You don’t see a problem with that?
Sounds to me like it took some skill for him to take out both units, unless he was just lucky this one time. And like I mentioned before, not every counter has to cost at least as much as what's being countered.No wonder the game is so poorly balanced. Nobody has any idea what fair value is. Let me spell it out for you: toolshed in that instance generated 6 energy worth of value for the cost of 4 (net 2 gain) AND is a warrior left on the field. Its extremely valuable and takes no skill to use effectively.