1. #1

    Problems with scoring (kinect and not only it, probably)

    Hello! We all know that some moves in JD are broken - even if you do moves exactly as a coach you get Super or worse so you have to find a trick how to get Perfect (which might be doing completely different move or doing move in some special time). I'm even sure that real coaches wouldn't get all perfects for their dances and that's just nonsense lol I think this should be resolved by some patches or something. Now a lot of my friends are being more disappointed than satisfied from the game. So do something, please
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  2. #2
    Are you speaking of JD 2020, a different year, or Unlimited? I had troubles with some dances when I was first learning how to dance with Kinect, especially Just Dance 2014 and Just Dance 4. In my experience, Just Dance 2018 thru 2020 are scored pretty reasonably with Xbox Kinect, and much better in general than previous years. It's pretty reasonable to hit 13k or a high 12 on the Just Dance 2020 songs.

    But having gone through the 300+ songs of the Unlimited catalog, I agree with you on many of the dances from 2014 and earlier. Sometimes it does seem like there is a trick to a move, or at least there is some technical point it is looking for, perhaps exaggerated. Maybe I am scoring better in 2020 because I have a lot of experience with studying and practicing Unlimited dances, learning how to turn a wide variety of moves from X's or OK's to perfects, so maybe I have more of an idea of what the game is expecting now.

    When I visit the WDF, there seem to be many players using Kinect and even using other platforms who hit high 13's on just about everything. I put up a few good scores today in a tournament and didn't even scare the person who finished in first, who was using Xbox, likely Kinect.

    Do you see a clean body-outline image when you're selecting your dancer at the beginning of the song, and later at the top of the screen? The sensor seems to work pretty good in many conditions these days, but sometimes it helps to avoid having objects in the background that might get confused with the dancer, wear clothing that makes your leg angles and torso angles clear, wear shoes to help it pick up your feet, wear clothing that contrasts with your background, set the sensor about 2 feet off the ground and level it, and stand about the right distance so that it picks up your feet and hands when you raise them over your head, allowing for a couple of a steps toward the t.v. if the choreography requires it, but don't be too far away either (it doesn't hurt to experiment). The sensor/game may have trouble picking up kids and smaller dancers using Kinect.

    It seems to be a combination of good rhythm/tracking and proper full-body technique. I'm sure the people who work on scoring spend time asking themselves, "What would the best dancers do correctly during this move that other players wouldn't do quite as well, which is important to the choreography?" From 2017 onward, I've discovered many moves by experiment, turning a lower score into a perfect, where I felt afterward, "Okay, that makes sense." It's rare that I feel disappointed. I was a bit disappointed when I finally hit 12900 on the tennis version of Water Me; I kind of felt like I was doing the dance better when I was hitting 12700. But that's been a rare feeling for me, except for 2014 and earlier. This year, I was having trouble with Soy Yo at first, but when I finally figured it out, the scoring made sense and my personal best went way higher than I was expecting.

    But I understand. When I first switched from Wii U to Xbox Kinect in 2017, I was getting frustrated with OK's and X's on some moves. It's frustrating to do your best on a move and take an X, especially on a Gold Move, even more so when you finally figure it out if it doesn't seem like the penalty fits the crime. They should be careful not to award an X or OK for a rather small detail; that's what Super should be for. On Funky Town, for example, it took me a lot of experimentation to figure out why I was taking X's on a few moves, and when I finally got it, I felt like the punishment was rather extreme; it seemed like a subtle thing to take an X for. But I understand that the top dancers should have done that right. I also don't see why Gold Moves need to be all or nothing. If a Gold Move is worth 5 perfects, then taking an X is like taking five X's at once. What's wrong with taking an OK or Good on a Gold Move? For great dancers, taking the equivalent of five OK"s or five Goods on a Gold Move would be punishment enough.

    Which dances are giving you and your friends the most frustration? Any specific examples that are bothering you? You're right about the "not only it, probably." The PS4 camera, phone game play, Switch Joy-Con, PS Move, everything has its issues. I wish they would post a few videos of examples of mistakes that people have made in older Unlimited examples and the corresponding scores so that I could think, "Okay, that makes sense," and people could learn a few tips about the tracking and scoring. Maybe they could show a few of the World Cup dancers doing those moves right to help show the difference. Thanks for posting your question.
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  3. #3
    I agree that 13k are not that difficult in JD 2020 but my point was that some moves are just broken. Like 1st move in Old Town Road (normal version) - my friends and I recorded on a video how we do it and how the coach does. Even with perfect timing and perfect technique we get only Super. Kinect worked just fine. We have the same problem with Con Altura for example (the move when you slowly raise your left hand). And I know how to get perfect on this move but that still would be some sort of cheating. So I just hope that developers would pay more attention to this problem and not ignore it like right now :/
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  4. #4
    Those are great examples. I see what you're saying. There are always a few stubborn moves like those. There is one stubborn move in Con Altura, for example, where the thing I do to hit a super or perfect instead of good doesn't seem exactly right, but it seems to work for me. But there are also many times where I've finally had that AHA moment where I realized I had been making a mistake and what had seemed like a stubborn, broken move started to work and make sense (for example, I discovered a few of these in Tel Aviv).

    Yet the scores are already crazy high on Xbox Kinect. Just imagine if there weren't any such moves how even more outrageous the scores will be. Happy dancing. :-)
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  5. #5
    Ubi-Swaggins's Avatar Ubisoft Support Staff
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Hey folks,

    If you can provide us with a video of some of these very particular moves that don't feel like they score correctly, I can get it passed on?

    I know you mentioned some specific tracks have these issues, but if we can get a video demonstrating which specific moves don't track properly, we can throw it over to the Just Dance team to take a closer look?
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  6. #6
    I watched some videos of Con Altura and found a couple of players who were able to hit Perfect on the tricky move while doing the move very much the way the coach does, so it looks like this move is doable in the spirit of what the coach does. The move in question, the coach slowly rises and raises her left arm (after previously doing this with her right arm). I focus on two things when I do this move, one being the subtle motion that occurs throughout this slow move. For me, one part of my body doesn't quite seem to match the coach, but for whatever reason, I score better doing that than when I try to copy the coach exactly. Maybe it just corrects a small mistake that I don't realize I'm otherwise making.

    Similarly, Kelvin Jaeder has a good interpretation of Old Town Road. He scores well on the opening sequence, showing that it can be done, and his technique looks much like the coach and what works for me. Maybe the move is really picky about the rhythm and smoothness; I like the way Kelvin pulls this off, and he seems to be scored appropriately for it with these moves. I personally have a harder time when these moves reappear at the end of the dance. I had a great scorecard spoiled by a late OK the other day, but still hit 13k, so it appears to be doable. I look up at the Dancer of the Week and always see nearly perfect scores even early in the week. I suppose a few of those scores could be done with phones, but I recognize a lot of Kinect experts on the leaderboards.

    But maybe PurpleChick2020 will post a video showing possible problems with these moves.

    Looking at the tennis version of Water Me, I watched SoToSendoCadu before I figured out how to score on the move where the hips shake and the right hand pulls the racket across the head to the right. That's not how I would have interpreted the coach doing the move, but the vigorous ways I had tried to pull that off hadn't worked consistently, and when I tried Cadu's method, it worked pretty well and was easier on the body. Some moves are open to interpretation, and it's the official scorer's interpretation that counts the most. A few moves are perhaps just harder to match the rhythm exactly (and hard for us to know whether our rhythm is slightly off in some way, or if it's a matter of technique; and then there are times where adjusting technique may improve the rhythm). I know it's part of the challenge that makes the game appealing, but challenge also sometimes adds frustration; it must be difficult to balance.

    It does seem like there is inconsistency in the way that moves and dances are scored. There are so many dances that are fairly easy to hit nearly all perfects on, that when we encounter dances where the scoring suddenly seems much pickier, by comparison it can seem frustrating. I hit 13k on three of the extremes this year in my first two attempts (which never happened to me before) and did very well on the dances marked "hard," but had difficulties mastering a few of the dances marked "easy." Those designations can be a little frustrating in that case. On the other hand, if every dance is too easy, the game will get boring; part of the appeal for me is the challenge of the puzzling moves.

    In 2019, I really had to work hard, study, practice, rehearse to hit nearly 13k on the alternate of Water Me, and to barely reach 13k on Sweet Little Unforgettable Thing. In 2018, the alternate of Dharma was challenging for me with Kinect. The tennis version of Water Me and the fight version of Dharma are a bit humorous, hard to take seriously, not the types of dances that most players want to analyze for subtleties in technique, so it can be frustrating if those types of dances seem pickier on the scoring than the main dances. In 2020, the non-extreme alternates seem all to be much more reasonable, at least in my experience.

    For me, the bigger problem is in the Unlimited catalog. Prior to 2017, the gold standard was 5 stars, and I imagine that the scoring was setup thinking that it should be challenging to hit 5 stars on some of the dances. In 2017, superstars were introduced, and in 2018, megastars came. Now many good dancers expect to hit 12k and strive to hit as many 13k's as possible. Imagine someone new to the game hitting all 13k's in 2020, then struggling to hit 12k, even 11k or 10k on a few of the Unlimited dances, suddenly taking many X's and OK's where they are used to taking almost all perfects. (If they had that experience, would they want to subscribe to Unlimited, or wonder if some of those older dances may be broken?) I went through the Unlimited catalog using Kinect for the second time last summer. My goal was to hit at least 12k on every Unlimited dance using Kinect. I came up a handful of songs short because 2020 was released before I finished. There are at least a few dozen dances that could be pretty frustrating for new dancers who aren't used to the old scoring, and some of these have a good beat and would be fun to dance to if the scoring didn't frustrate them. I'm thinking of She's Got Me Dancing, Applause, Aquarius, C'Mon, Moskau, I Kissed a Girl, Funkytown, etc. I've learned to score well on some of these, but I remember the first time trying these and others in 2017 with Kinect, it was a bit of a shock. It's funny how some songs are much easier on one platform than another. For example, I tried She's Got Me Dancing one time on the PS4 camera and hit 13k or very nearly, yet the same dance is a struggle for me with Kinect.
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  7. #7
    Ubi-Litten's Avatar Ubisoft Support Staff
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Thanks again for this additional feedback, we will certainly make sure this is passed along, but if anyone would be able to provide links to clips where they feel the scoring may be harsh or incorrect, please feel free to do so and we will make sure this is looked into further.
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