1. #11
    Originally Posted by Merphee Go to original post
    I don't think it works for you then. The DZ needs exclusive loot, because the devs cannot rely on a simple interest in order to get players in there. Additionally, those who actively partake in the DZ and can accept what can happen in it and to them have no problem with exclusivity. It's the same for the raid. Even incursions in Division 1. Resistance as well. There was never a time in Division where loot was locked behind PVP. That has always been an error in player perception that, for some reason, refuses to be acknowledged.

    So...... solo dark zone servers.
    At one point wasn’t banshee a DZ exclusive?
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  2. #12
    uhuriger's Avatar Senior Member
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    "Rolls on items are now visible" thats nice. So when u go to rob some farmers loot u can be sure it has good rolls. lol They are bad little motherfukkerz in sweden....
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  3. #13
    Merphee's Avatar Volunteer Moderator
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    Originally Posted by CoOp_Gordon Go to original post
    Is that true? I played TD1 from v1.4 onwards, and seem to recall that until patch 1.8 only 3 useless exotics were available in the LZ, the rest being gated behind the DZ. I know that 1 or 2 other exotics could theoretically have a very small chance to drop from LZ bosses in certain missions but in nearly 3000 hours I never saw one.
    "Gated behind the DZ" does not mean one needed to PVP in order to get an item. That's an issue with people being unable to understand why it's bad to only label a player as either a "PVE only" player or a "PVP only" player. Because then, the interpretation of the DZ gets shifted to either or and never what it's really about: both.

    You do not need to kill another player in order to get something that isn't available elsewhere (Manhut caches are only exclusive in name, not in contents of the cache) in the DZ. Exotics or classifieds could drop from a named enemy or a supply drop. And iirc, dz chests. Even before 1.4, DZXP was attainable from PVE activities, and, extractions never guaranteed PVP, especially if you have good SA.

    Now, the only thing gated behind PVP in Division 2 are those Conflict vanity items. That's how one must understand what "gated behind PVP" truly means in the context of this game imo.
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  4. #14
    Originally Posted by Merphee Go to original post
    Because then, the interpretation of the DZ gets shifted to either or and never what it's really about: both.
    DZ is PvP, the NPCs in there are to attract PvE players to massacre, or bait the rogues to switch on them. In the end you either walk in to kill other players or go in to get griefed,

    Originally Posted by Merphee Go to original post
    You do not need to kill another player in order to get something that isn't available elsewhere (Manhut caches are only exclusive in name, not in contents of the cache) in the DZ. Exotics or classifieds could drop from a named enemy or a supply drop. And iirc, dz chests. Even before 1.4, DZXP was attainable from PVE activities, and, extractions never guaranteed PVP, especially if you have good SA.
    Oh, but you do. Epecially now that DZ levels are gated behind engaging in PvP.
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  5. #15
    Merphee's Avatar Volunteer Moderator
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    Originally Posted by desrocchi Go to original post
    DZ is PvP, the NPCs in there are to attract PvE players to massacre, or bait the rogues to switch on them. In the end you either walk in to kill other players or go in to get griefed,
    Case and point: error in the perception. As long as people continue to only see two separate sides, they will always be annoyed. And it's not the devs fault, it is the players' own perception.

    Originally Posted by desrocchi Go to original post
    Oh, but you do. Epecially now that DZ levels are gated behind engaging in PvP.
    That has always been a thing. The devs just doubled down on tailoring the DZ experience for those who actually go in there and can accept every part about it, not just some parts about it.
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  6. #16
    I dont see these changes being very helpful. Not to mention the new expansion coming which will draw players away from dc altogether.

    So basically on pc the dz is dead. Nobody goes there very often, I have jumped between all 3 and nobody.

    The cheese, crap anti cheat and lack of interest has killed off the dz and conflict modes.

    I doubt the listed changes help much.

    But basically now the dz is a pvp zone. So why would pve even bother?

    Just sit at extracts and take their loot. They are not going to extract trash. Just wait and ambush.

    Ok. So.... then what?

    I find it very interesting they did not add a dz for warlords. That alone is a sign they are moving away from pvevp.

    You dont release a future dlc dz only pack. You'd have to add it to even more new pve content for all players to be interested to meet sales #s.

    Plus most streamers have moved on and without new pvp content they will not return.

    Another bad move in the short history for massive. That list is getting as long as the bugs needing fixed list.
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  7. #17
    vvhorus's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Andrewszed Go to original post
    I dont see these changes being very helpful. Not to mention the new expansion coming which will draw players away from dc altogether.

    So basically on pc the dz is dead. Nobody goes there very often, I have jumped between all 3 and nobody.

    The cheese, crap anti cheat and lack of interest has killed off the dz and conflict modes.

    I doubt the listed changes help much.

    But basically now the dz is a pvp zone. So why would pve even bother?

    Just sit at extracts and take their loot. They are not going to extract trash. Just wait and ambush.

    Ok. So.... then what?

    I find it very interesting they did not add a dz for warlords. That alone is a sign they are moving away from pvevp.

    You dont release a future dlc dz only pack. You'd have to add it to even more new pve content for all players to be interested to meet sales #s.

    Plus most streamers have moved on and without new pvp content they will not return.

    Another bad move in the short history for massive. That list is getting as long as the bugs needing fixed list.
    ^^^ This. 100% agree. ^^^

    These changes don't bring anything new. PvE players will still stay out, and PvP players will still do their thing. What a plot twist.

    As for the exclusive DZ loot, they can keep it. Traditionally most exotics in this franchise have been garbage, so, meh...

    I think these are just futile efforts to save a sinking ship.
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  8. #18
    Cadillac-Jack's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by vvhorus Go to original post
    ^^^ This. 100% agree. ^^^

    These changes don't bring anything new. PvE players will still stay out, and PvP players will still do their thing..
    Well yeah obviously the DZ was never a P v E zone, never has been never will be and never marketed as a P v E only zone.

    Infact it is/was a P v P v E zone where you P v E and P v P'd at the same time, those who chose to use it as a P v E only Zone have only themselves to blame for not understanding what a player v NPc and Player v Player zone is.

    As for gated loot in the DZ that loot is for P v P v E players, loot in the /raid and LZ is for P v E plkayers and loot in Conflict is for P v P players. (personally I think the devs have got it right)

    All 3 types of players are catered for (for the most part)

    P v E players with the Lz and the Raid
    P v P players with conflict or whatever they have
    P v P v E players the Dark Zones.

    All have activities and all have their own loot
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  9. #19
    I think the majority of those still committed to DZ play are those that were DZ players in TD1. So it makes sense to make TD2 more like TD1.

    I used to enjoy playing in the DZ. For the most part, I hadn't seen a lot of toxicity. Most of the time it was without incident. But after they buffed skills and nerfed everything else, the DZ has become a skill build paradise. I am not into the skills and more interested in traditional gunfighting.

    So early on, they recognized that skills were not viable and that resulted in lack of build diversity. If you wanted to be successful, you had to go in with a gun build.

    Now it is the complete opposite.
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  10. #20
    Originally Posted by vvhorus Go to original post
    ^^^ This. 100% agree. ^^^

    These changes don't bring anything new. PvE players will still stay out, and PvP players will still do their thing. What a plot twist.

    As for the exclusive DZ loot, they can keep it. Traditionally most exotics in this franchise have been garbage, so, meh...

    I think these are just futile efforts to save a sinking ship.
    It doesn't have to be exclusives for it to make it worth it. As was stated, the quality of the rolls on the gear are going to be higher meaning you have more of a chance to find god rolled items in the DZ vs doing story/normal mode missions or LZ stuff. We just don't know the range yet. I figure if they put the quality slider around heroic mode, then there will be a reason to go do the DZ then for PvP since you have another avenue of getting better rolled stuff and looking for those god rolled gear.
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