Here's my theory on why the enemy AI is so bad in this game... | Forums

[Virtual-Chris]

Where it gets weird for me is when I snipe a guy and they find the body. Eventually they are all standing around facing different directions, many facing the location I fired from originally...and they stay like that. I have no idea if eventually they will change state as I get bored of waiting so I bait a location. I plant a mine and then snipe a guy from there. Doesn't matter if I hit or miss as long as they notice a shot. They then converge on that spot, the mine kills somebody and shortly thereafter they all decide, "hey all good now, just a random explosion and what may or may not have been a sniper. It is how I deal routinely with a stuck yellow alert state.

Right.

In Wildlands, if a body is discovered, which is rare because bodies disappear, or you miss a shot (more likely), they will send a bunch of guys to your last known while hailing your position with mortars and sounding the air horns to summon a gunship to your last known. If you’re dumb enough not to move, you will die. If you play it as we all do, you either break contact and wait 5 minutes for them to settle down, re-engage from another location, or watch some of them fall victim to your trap. So you have four styles of play at your disposal: assault the oncoming force, stealthily reposition, lead them on a chase, or play guerrilla warfare.

In this game, what are your choices when you get discovered? It seems like whack-a-mole is the only option most times. I eventually gave up on stealth as it was dreadful. In this game, it’s actually easiest to get discovered and stay that way so they don’t crawl back into their holes and ideally channel them through a funnel of death. But that gets boring as well.

I know some people felt the hive mentality of Wildlands was unrealistic, but it actually offers more tactical choice, predictability, and makes the AI more aggressive and deadly. I think we should ask them to go back to that and just suck it up and deal with it. This current confused state they get in is no good for any play style.

[Virtual-Chris]

Here's an example of bad AI behaviour...I assaulted this base from the front and got detected... enemies were shooting at me unsuppressed (RED state as you can see from my Minimap). I went around back and I shot a guy on the walkway from under the helicopter pad (you can see his mark on the wall). I stay put as shown in the photo. His sniper buddy comes from the landing pad and just stares blankly off to the left. He doesn't look around. Doesn't detect me. I take a photo and then after 30 seconds shoot him. Completely bugged.

Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon® Breakpoint2020-2-21-15-6-59 by Virtual-Chris (Junk Photos), on Flickr

[ArgimonEd]

Strange...When I shoot and enter a detected state.
They rush me like on wildlands.
I always end up having to relocate and do all those 4 steps.
I already said on other threads that I'm always baiting them to pull some guerrilla/commando moves

[Steven527]

One thing I have had to shift to doing is using some really gamey stuff to get the AI to actually do something. For example I am on the top floor of one of those office buildings. The AI is all standing around yelling on the first floor. They will stay like that almost indefinitely. So I shift position across the roof and then move back to my original spot. Despite me being a few floors up, this almost always results in a couple making a rush for me. Like their x ray vision notes my movements.

[Virtual-Chris]

One thing I have had to shift to doing is using some really gamey stuff to get the AI to actually do something. For example I am on the top floor of one of those office buildings. The AI is all standing around yelling on the first floor. They will stay like that almost indefinitely. So I shift position across the roof and then move back to my original spot. Despite me being a few floors up, this almost always results in a couple making a rush for me. Like their x ray vision notes my movements.

Wow. That’s pretty bad... it would seem like they occasionally get stuck.

I’ve found that consistently the AI is not looking “around”... this guy above is a perfect example. In the same session, I shot a gunner on a moving vehicle and then shot the driver (near side - BTW why do they eject themselves from the vehicle after dying?). A third guy got out on the far side. I shifted right. He came around the left side of the vehicle and was looking straight at my last known. I could plainly see him 10m away but he didn’t look around.

The devs need to take Sentinel’s neck braces and blinders off and put their heads on a swivel or just broaden their field of view detection to something like 180-degrees when passive and 270-degrees when engaged. Who would not look around?!

Santa Blanca AI has better detection FoV and range than these guys for sure.

[Virtual-Chris]

As I postulate in the OP, the key problem i believe is that the devs are trying to walk this fine line between having them be combative or at least somewhat defensive while trying to be realistic about the fact they don’t really know where you are most of the time. And unfortunately, the end result is that they are often confused and behaving like they shouldn’t know where you are, even when they should clearly see you if they just looked around.

If the AI doesn’t know where I am, they are useless. Who wants enemies that stand around like pylons. These guys have the tech, through security systems, drones, and radios to zero in on my location very very quickly. But they don’t even turn their heads.

Devs, if you’re reading this, FFS just cheat and have the AI know where we are once we’re discovered. We can pretend there’s a good reason for it. Is there not a single CCTV camera, motions sensor, or thermal imaging drone anywhere these idiot AI can use to find us? At least that way we might get in a fight once in awhile instead of just playing whack-a-mole with paper targets.

I swear to god, all the people that complained about the hive mind of Wildlands AI... this AI is for you. The stupid thing is, these guys have the tech to have a hive mind, but have no mind at all.

[martbloke88]

Yeah I don't get why an island hyped on tech doesn't have cameras?

I like them not knowing where you are at first if you kill someone from cover stealthily so that can remain. When I'm detected, I do get them knowing my location - had it last night in Feb Bog.

I ran behind a large rock and they came out their base to get me. Was good actually. Had 2-3 runners which I picked off. Others where approaching from the left and right. Everytime I poked my head out, I got a flurry of gunfire at me. I stay behind the rock and hear/see tactical movement. A few would be covered and occasionally poke out while others were running around them. They slowly got up to my position. I flashbang them and run further away under cover to a new location about 100m away. Wait a while and 2 of them come straight towards my new location.

Another time was when o was detected in a base. Picked all but 2 off. Ran half way around the base and hid with them in sight. They were looking around as they no longer knew where I was. I picked 1 off from range stealthily while the other was around a corner with no chance of knowing where I was (still under detection). As soon as that happened, the other came running around the corner straight for me. All the above on Extreme no HUD.

I will give it to the Devs, they have improved the AI since launch for sure. Yes it still needs tweaks, but is much better. Looking forward to more improvements.

[PLAYER_77422]

Here's an example of bad AI behaviour...I assaulted this base from the front and got detected... enemies were shooting at me unsuppressed (RED state as you can see from my Minimap). I went around back and I shot a guy on the walkway from under the helicopter pad (you can see his mark on the wall). I stay put as shown in the photo. His sniper buddy comes from the landing pad and just stares blankly off to the left. He doesn't look around. Doesn't detect me. I take a photo and then after 30 seconds shoot him. Completely bugged.

Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon® Breakpoint2020-2-21-15-6-59 by Virtual-Chris (Junk Photos), on Flickr

The black blood stains, another unfixed thing...

[Merlinsdragon1]

I am a retired Marine Scout sniper , If you are discovered- FLANK THEM come in from their rear eliminate them. SO simple.

If you ever severed = you will know few country's have real Military training.
This is why they use IED's- we were trained for these - mostly.

sorry to hear you have been severed

[Rivverrabbit]

I hear what you're saying--it's almost as though Santa Blanca should have behaved more like Sentinel, and vice versa.

This is one of the major problems with Breakpoint's setting: the demands of gameplay don't follow the fiction. You can't have a sneaking, behind-enemy-lines stealth game but also have a highly technologically advanced opfor (unless you, the player, ahev equal or better tech-like some optic camo, remote hacking, jammer-field nanotech Deus Ex type ****). There's no way the enemy as described doesn't find Erewhon or Nomad. There's no way every base ain't covered in cameras, or that every alert triggers a full lockdown, or that every guard isn't in full communication with the whole organization.

I think the issue from a pure gameplay perspective, though, is that there are so few tools or steps between the "unalerted" to the "knowing exactly where you are" stages. Sentinel needs more failsafes to ward against infiltration, and more responses for when those failsafes are triggered.

Every base should be lousy with cameras and motion sensors and thermal cameras and stuff. Even if you gamify it by making them less realistic (trip lasers instead of fields of view), these devices need to make a quiet infiltration more challenging, and to provide an excuse for how they know where you are. Like, say they train sensors on your approximate location to zero in on you. You can fool thermals and motion sensors by using prone camo, but if you're moving around, it means they know where you are.

To counter this, make it so that any base which has these (because maybe every outpost or checkpoint doesn't) has a security office and somebody monitoring it (after all, if it's all automated, animals would be triggering false alarms all the time). This can be disrupted, that guard defeated--but they are generally deep indoors so you'd have to do a very careful infiltration. Further, you can destroy individual sensors, which prompts a team to come out and check it. Lastly, have a time cycle for when guards just check in over radio--so that if you start stealthily taking them down, you're on the clock before your disruption is discovered.

All these create more dynamism and ways for players to interact with guards, while also providing more justification for how they ultimately know where you are when you do get spotted.