New year, new ways to nerf shinobi. | Forums

[Siegfried-Z]

Being very frustrating to deal with for around 4-5 months versus being a literal cancer in the game that you weren't allowed to press buttons against for 2 years. If you're going to make that case then let's honestly examine which one of these two characters has historically been worse for the health of the game overall, shall we? Any guesses as to which one?

I also dispute your claim about Shinobi having a more skill based kit than most heroes. That's quite a subjective claim and I don't know what you consider to be "more skill based than most heroes" so you'll have to explain your reasoning there.

More importantly however, as Goat mentioned; these past few months there has been a huge upsurge in forum posts complaining about Shinobi's nerfs. It literally did reach a point where every second or third thread on the front page was a Shinobi one. I honestly don't remember there being such a loud and prolonged outcry even for PK or Warlord's absolutely crippling nerfs back in the day. Not to mention that so much of this noise has been coming from such a small handful of posters on here. Does anyone spare a thought about Nobushi by the way? A character that was also heavily nerfed without compensation and is arguably in a worse state than Shinobi but just isn't lucky enough to have any mains on this particular forum spamming daily/weekly threads about her.

I mean seriously. It's high time for certain individuals on this forum who are under this "Shinobi mania" to get a cold sobering splash of reality and get some perspective on the matter. There is not a single veteran player of this game that hasn't had to deal with their main being in a less than satisfactory state. Shinobi players are not an exception to this nor are they some sort of cross bearing martyrs. Almost every vanilla and Year 1 DLC hero has been there.

Either, deal with it and accept that a rework will come whenever it comes. Choose another hero to play, there's currently 25 of them to pick from. Or, if the frustration that so many of us; your fellow FH gamers have also had to bear is too much for you, then simply move on from For Honor.

Tbf despite pre nerf Shinobi has been in the game for a longer time Imo in a few months pre nerf Raider has hurt not the game itself but the players overall a lot more.

We never have armies of Shinobi in the game.. while pre nerf Raider was absolutly everywhere in every possible game.
I've never seen more complaints in FH than about Raider rework.

About Shino and skills, as i explained to Goat i am talking about the learning curve. You can easly admit that a beginner with Shinobi will get roll on a lot more than with most others heroes. Pre nerf Shino was requiring a decent experience and understanding of his kit and the game overall at least in terms of recovery to be decently used.
I would add that he isnt among the current FH mode to give hero some easy combo to use aka L-B-L, bash spam, Stunning tap etc.
Skills may be subjective but saying he is among the heroes having a longer and deeper learning curve is not.

About people complaining on Shino nerf i wouldnt call it an "outcry" as he is literally getting destroyed slowly but surely without any words about it.
On my side i've never been a Shino main, i only rep him up a month before the beginning of his nerfs but even if everyone can think Ubi plan to rework him, they did not dare to speak about his situation .. as always they show a very bad communication and most of the frustration come from this. At least i think.
Of course some others needs love but people concerning about Shino arent responsible for others who are forgotten as well as your example about Nobu.

I mostly play Glad, Kensei, Musha, Shaman, Valk and Shaolin and didnt even open a thread about Shino.. but saying to people the should skip to another Game than FH because they want to be heard about the poor situation of Shino isnt appropriate Imo.
As it isn't to just say "anyway it wasn't usefull" about the remooval of Quad dash.

Btw i agree with Vendelkin, imo Shino has been gutted more than any others heros.

[Siegfried-Z]

The difference is Shinobi was and in some ways still has been busted since his release which has been about 2 years. Raider's buffed state as obnoxious as it might have been to deal with was never anywhere close to the level of damaging for the game's health compared to Shinobi.

It really isn't hard at all to figure out why Shinobi is viewed the way he is. I'm sure you've seen Freeze's video about his busted state. How can anything Shinobi used to be capable of doing be fairly or accurately compared to raider spamming blind? I think it's less of you not understanding and more so your own perspective. You didn't have to deal with an optimal playing Shinobi so it's hard for you to grasp the issues completely. Or maybe you have and you just don't find it to be as annoying.

My memory isn't what it used to be. But Shinobi has never received any major nerf without compensation beyond his kick being nerfed as he launched for full population to have access to. That nerf removed the kick's viability which was the only thing he ever had to be compared to viable offense. Every other change he's received has been fixes to actual problematic issues. And in all this time the devs have still not done anything to his damage. Which continues to be a major painpoint.


Still, I wouldn't classify Shinobi as gutted even in this day and age. There has only been 3 maaaaaaybe 4 heros that have ever been gutted by the developers. That would be PK, Warlord, and Nobushi. It's understandable that Shinobi mains might be upset at the treatment the hero gets. But every single character has had that spotlight. And the amount of shinobi complainers is about the same amount as orochi at this point imo. it's very tiring. Both are still perfectly usable heros. People just need to either move on to a different hero or deal until a rework happens. And if ya can't then maybe don't play for honor until it happens.

Sorry i could have quote you with Vakris as your posts are quite similar but i saw it after.
Most things i could have answer are in my previous post.

I would just add that of course i've seen Freeze vid and i do understand the issues his kit brought to the game.

But as you say it is more about my personnal feelings as i've never been as annoyed by him in 2 years as i have with Raider in a few months for the simple reason that Shino has never been everywhere as Raider was. It was literally armies of this Guy.

Anyway now both has been nerf.. and despite my deep hate for Raider i was able to say his nerf was a bit hard.

That's why even if a rework is probably coming i dislike when people treat Shino huge nerfs just as it doesnt matter because it's Shino.

And again, i am not a Shino player.. it is just a question of Fairness to me.

[Knight_Raime]

Sorry i could have quote you with Vakris as your posts are quite similar but i saw it after.
Most things i could have answer are in my previous post.

I would just add that of course i've seen Freeze vid and i do understand the issues his kit brought to the game.

But as you say it is more about my personnal feelings as i've never been as annoyed by him in 2 years as i have with Raider in a few months for the simple reason that Shino has never been everywhere as Raider was. It was literally armies of this Guy.

Anyway now both has been nerf.. and despite my deep hate for Raider i was able to say his nerf was a bit hard.

That's why even if a rework is probably coming i dislike when people treat Shino huge nerfs just as it doesnt matter because it's Shino.

And again, i am not a Shino player.. it is just a question of Fairness to me.

When the devs took away Centurion's capability to get his cutscene off of a parry I stuck with him. Despite that basically ruining the character. What Vakris said still rings true. All "mains" have had their time in the glorious lime light being in a poor state. Both Shinobi and Centurion exist in a very raw and very terrible state. They were both the devs first real attempts at addressing core game issues and they both came out a mangled design mess.

Were it Centurion in the same shoes as Shinobi (aka repeated adjustments or "nerfs") my position would not be different. I'm not over looking what it's doing to Shino because of my heavy bias against the hero. I'm not complaining about it because I value the health of the game above all. I want shinobi to be fun and viable as much as any shinobi main does. But I also recognize that to get there a LOT about him needs to change. Enough still hasn't changed because he needs to be altered on a fundemental level. The only way the devs can start properly making him better is if they also properly change his identity. Because any drastic and meaningful buff he gets at this point will likely continue to pressure the pain points his design brings on the game.

[Siegfried-Z]

When the devs took away Centurion's capability to get his cutscene off of a parry I stuck with him. Despite that basically ruining the character. What Vakris said still rings true. All "mains" have had their time in the glorious lime light being in a poor state. Both Shinobi and Centurion exist in a very raw and very terrible state. They were both the devs first real attempts at addressing core game issues and they both came out a mangled design mess.

Were it Centurion in the same shoes as Shinobi (aka repeated adjustments or "nerfs") my position would not be different. I'm not over looking what it's doing to Shino because of my heavy bias against the hero. I'm not complaining about it because I value the health of the game above all. I want shinobi to be fun and viable as much as any shinobi main does. But I also recognize that to get there a LOT about him needs to change. Enough still hasn't changed because he needs to be altered on a fundemental level. The only way the devs can start properly making him better is if they also properly change his identity. Because any drastic and meaningful buff he gets at this point will likely continue to pressure the pain points his design brings on the game.

Completely agree with that.

I gess it is just because of some "wording" confusion that some people always look to disagree when it come to a few thing, Shinobi case is one of them. But at the end everyone agree he just need an urgent rework which would make him viable and fun without the frustration his pre nerf state could bring.

Same for Cent.. and i really hope the release date is going to be very soon because the time they take to do it is ridiculous at this point.