Did everyone forget about BP? | Forums

[Vendelkin]

Black prior is OP, but minorly so in two areas. His bulwark stance is a bit strong exspecially with how his bulwark counter works currently (can do many things literally no one else can) and his recovery cancels are a bit unfair in specific matchups and against deflects.

But when (if) these things get fixes he will need some boosts elsewhere cause otherwise hed end up slightly weak.

[Qoissant]

Bulwark is not necessarily OP since its very easy to bait and its recovery is bad. I did see a BP flip Orochi's deflect once tho that was funny XD

flipping a deflect should definitely be impossible and just sounds like an oversight/possibly just an exception for orochis garbage deflects. I could agree that his flip is OP for the following:

- Can flip air assassinations which is utter BS
- Can flip multiple people and damage them all
- Flip has massive AoE making big brain attempts to cancel the punish to save your teammates impossible without hyper armour so its basically not possible because idk how you'd react fast enough and get HA to successfully stop it

I think the thing i despise the most about vortiger is how he hogs the oathbreaker feat all to himself AND can heal while in bulwark. Bulwark heal should straight up be deleted or given to the other two shieldy bois

[Bye_For_Honor]

the only thing i want to see about bp is if you dodge a bash you get a gb thats it , np the speed

[Vakris_One]

the only thing i want to see about bp is if you dodge a bash you get a gb thats it , np the speed

That would mean he risks a 32-40 damage punish for a net worth of 17 damage on an attack that is reactable for the majority of players. He would never be able to risk using his bash to open up a turtling opponent so then you'd both sit there just staring at each other like good old Year 1 gameplay.

There is a reason why the devs made bash recoveries immune to GB. It wasn't just done by accident.

[Vendelkin]

Bulwark is not necessarily OP since its very easy to bait and its recovery is bad. I did see a BP flip Orochi's deflect once tho that was funny XD

How would you feel if i asked for aramusha's blade blockade to be able to be entered via a recovery cancel, counter bashes, counter feats, have an animation that extends if multiple people hit it instead of failing, and counter drop attacks as well?

Because if black priors isn't OP than thats what aramusha should get. Hint hint aramusha blade blockade has the same recovery and gb weakness and can only be hard feinted into if tricking opponents for less damage.

Ive talked about this elsewhere. Even with the recovery and gb weakness black priors bulwark is far more versatile and powerful than any other similar move. That means it is directly OP considering the current balance of the game. And ill say this again here as well, anyone that somehow thinks otherwise when examining the move is not doing critically and definately has a bias.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

Have you ever seen a Bulwark interrupted? Because I play lots of BP and for sure I did not, even other Priors staying near and throwing me over during it using their own Bulwark Counter is far more likely. You really, really have to be totally on point to bash exactly during that time, which nets you minimal damage if done correctly, but almost certainly gives the Black Prior revenge. And 30 damage on everyone standing nearby might be too much, though I don't know how I would nerf it without heavily weakening bp. Maybe only those on the ground suffer 30 damage, the others 10 only or something like that.

Aramusha's blade blockade has different advantages BP does not have. Aramusha can enter Blade Blockade any time, which includes immedietely after a 500ms light hitting him, which means a 400ms followup can be caught by him with a quite easy read, making some offense like pk's, nuxia's and orochi's particularly unsafe and useless. There is also no clue when the blockade will be used, you just press it and enter immedietely, while BP must already be in fullblock (though it can happen after a recovery cancel). You are also heavily discouraged for throwing a guardbreak against Aramusha. Of course, once you have a bash, everything he has rendered garbage.

[Vakris_One]

How would you feel if i asked for aramusha's blade blockade to be able to be entered via a recovery cancel, counter bashes, counter feats, have an animation that extends if multiple people hit it instead of failing, and counter drop attacks as well?

I wouldn't mind it being a recovery cancel, countering bashes and having a special counter for projectile feats by sending the projectile back at the player who threw it, provided the fullblock is still vulnerable to GB. I wouldn't mind giving Ara an unblockable option such as a 566-600ms Ring the Bell grab from it either. Countering drop attacks would look out of place though because Ara isn't using a shield the size of his entire torso like BP is.

As for multiple people hitting the fullblock, first a little bit of info you seem to not know about BP's bullwark flip: It can be stopped before he deals his guarranteed follow up damage. There is a window just after he flips but before his attack lands where he can be bashed out of the attack portion thereby stuffing him out of it. A Gladiator toe stab is the easiest way of doing it but other 500ms bashes also suffice.

Now for the Aramusha fullblock, I would allow it to counter all incoming external attacks just like bullwark and I would remove the window for stuffing it but I would make the guarranteed follow up attack only able to hit the target the Ara is locked on to, similiar to Conq's fullblock heavy follow up. Because again, Ara is not using a giant shield so he doesn't get to man handle a crowd of people. He does however get immunity from being stuffed out of the follow up attack on a single opponent as compensation.

The reason why I would change some things around with this theoretical Aramusha style bullwark is because if you just copy paste a move from another character then you make the game boring. Without character diversity players will lose interest fast. There are ways to make strong moves without wholesale copy/pasting even amongst characters with similiar roles/gimmicks. Needless to say, if we give this to Aramusha then Warlord should also get a better fullblock but with his own unique style. Like giving him a bear hug as a counter or attack option.

Because if black priors isn't OP than thats what aramusha should get. Hint hint aramusha blade blockade has the same recovery and gb weakness and can only be hard feinted into if tricking opponents for less damage.

Ive talked about this elsewhere. Even with the recovery and gb weakness black priors bulwark is far more versatile and powerful than any other similar move. That means it is directly OP considering the current balance of the game. And ill say this again here as well, anyone that somehow thinks otherwise when examining the move is not doing critically and definately has a bias.

Sounds more like you might be the one with the bias and don't actually understand what the meaning of overpowered is. OP means something that has absolutely no counterplay to it or has massive reward for little to no risk. BP's bullwark has counterplay to it and the risk to reward ratio isn't grossly skewed in his favour because he always risks being baited into a GB when going into it.

And I just want to say this, anyone who argues with the premise of, "And if you don't agree with my opinion then you're wrong/biased!" is either dreadfully insecure in the validity of their argument or hasn't done adequate research and examined their argument with critical thinking.

[atac56]

Have you ever seen a Bulwark interrupted? Because I play lots of BP and for sure I did not, even other Priors staying near and throwing me over during it using their own Bulwark Counter is far more likely .

the BP's bulwark counter can definitely be interrupted. As stated earlier there's a window that's between his sword swing and before his sword hits the victim that he can be bashed. The victim is then spared from any damage. I've been using BP and it happens to me. Also, the BP's sword can hit a wall during the animation preventing damage to the victims.

i also find that no one worth their salt falls for the counter frequently, especially in ganks. Instead they bait the hell out of it and punish me for it. Lobbies where BP's are pancaking people have to be full of players who dont know how to effectively gank or dont know how to fight the BP. I'd bet money these are the same guys who attack the Hito during an execution trying to interrupt it rather than bash or gb him

[Bye_For_Honor]

yea thats the point it isnt easy to dodge a bash so at least you get something for a turtling bp who does nothing but bash ,
should be like conq's recovery , its good but its punishable , its still an opener . making it punishable wouldn't make it totally trash

[Vakris_One]

It's punishable by dodge attack on reaction, not GB. Same as Conq's bash. GB is only possible if you prediction dodge on a correct read.