1. #1

    Idea for Buff/Nerf

    A way to ban Bandit is to change its deploy method to something similar to Kaid, When Bandit put down his gadget, it should take 2~3 sec before it can activate.

    And this change I think it might be able to Nerf or Change/shape people's view on Lion. What if Lion's gadget was change to something like a movement scanner launcher? For example, you use a launcher that shot a scanner onto a surface that will scan any movement ONCE in a open area space. Let's just say you shoot a movement scanner onto the wall of Bank lobby, and it automatically scan any enemy for 3~5 sec once someone run across that open area.

    I know Echo is one of those operator that is hard to balance, but what I have in mind is why not give one sonic wave burst to the drone instead of two? Also, when Echo shot the sonic wave burst, his drone should not be able to get off the wall until its sonic wave burst fully recharged.! I feel that a lot of players would be happy with this change, at least I would be happy with it.

    Also Lesion's mind is disgusting. If a attacker step onto the lesion mine, it should do 10~15 damage and that should be it! It shouldn't be doing constant damage overtime.

    Quite a few of Ela fan want her gun to be buffed, however, I feel that her gun don't need a buff, Its so easy to get kill with her gun even it does low damage. So, we can trying to buff her gadget instead, when her trap is set off, anyone that is effect by it shouldn't be able to aim for 3~5 sec, first, that would make her a great counter to Rusher, second, that would probably make her more reliable.

    Also, Caveria's gadget is a little bit on the disgusting side. I feel that there should be something done to make her more balance, her pistole does more damage than most of Attack's rifle; When Caveira interrogate somebody, her position should also be revealed for half of the attacker's reveal time!

    One more thing is that why not just give wamai 5~6 Mag-Net System to start with? I know you he is made for anchoring, but that just kinda force player to stay onsite, the only reason Wamai will never replace Jager is because that sometime stay onsite is not the best option, I mean come one I think Jager can probably anchor as well as Wamai on site. I just don't see the point of him getting his gadget over time. For Lesion I can understand that, but Wamai I feel like is complete different. At least Give Waimai 3 Mag-Net System to start with.
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  2. #2
    Oops, made a typo, "A way to Ban Bandit....." I mean to say NERF.
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  3. #3
    Sgt Astor's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by NotSweatyEnough Go to original post

    Also, Caveria's gadget is a little bit on the disgusting side.

    Couldn't have said it better
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  4. #4
    I would phase it something different, but those cav main is probably going to get mad.
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by NotSweatyEnough Go to original post
    I would phase it something different, but those cav main is probably going to get mad.
    Not a cav main but isnt she bad enough as she is rn?
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  6. #6
    I'm not talking about her gun tho, if you just put her gun aside, she differently have one of the best ability in the game.. I wouldn't say she is bad because not many player have the mindset or skill to fully master her(or to certain degree). However,let's say you facing against a team of 5 stack, and when someone pick Cav, first thing the 5 stack team would do is Look-out for Cav or hunt her down, and suddenly it become 5 vs 1(or whoever else is roaming with her), However she differently bring Fear upon the enemy.
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  7. #7
    A way to nerf Bandit is to change its deploy method to something similar to Kaid, When Bandit put down his gadget, it should take 2~3 sec before it can activate.
    Bandit's generators are already underperforming in comparison with Rtilla and Mute's jammers in many aspects. Why would you make it worse?
    nd this change I think it might be able to Nerf or Change/shape people's view on Lion. What if Lion's gadget was change to something like a movement scanner launcher?
    Lion's drone is easely avoidable by any character, does nothing special. Many players don't even know how to use it properly, so its functionality right now is to prevent early runouts. It should be buffed, not nerfed. As a defender, why would I care about a device that forces me to sit still for 2 seconds? I can rotate my camera, hold the angles. And even if I get detected it's not a Caveira's wallhack, it's just a regular ping, I'm in a different place already.
    I know Echo is one of those operator that is hard to balance, but what I have in mind is why not give one sonic wave burst to the drone instead of two?
    Ok, but the concussion duration should be reverted back to 10 seconds and visual distortion strength should be twice harder to compensate. He won't be that effective at disrupting a plant as before, but buffing his blast strength would keep his supportive role almost intact. I would miss blasting two targets one after another though.
    Also, when Echo shot the sonic wave burst, his drone should not be able to get off the wall until its sonic wave burst fully recharged.! I feel that a lot of players would be happy with this change, at least I would be happy with it.
    No. Just no. You wanna make Yokai shooting only once, that's enough for any other player to notice it after that and to destroy, because poor drone would have no way to defend itself. Being unable to relocate for 20 seconds is not a nerf, it's a pure crippling of Echo. If you can't deal with an operator, it's not a reason to ruin him for everyone.
    Also Lesion's mind is disgusting. If a attacker step onto the lesion mine, it should do 10~15 damage and that should be it! It shouldn't be doing constant damage overtime.
    Lesion's problem is not his Gu mines damage. It is the wide variety of things he can do, the variety of niches he can fill.
    It is damage (pretty low, but I'm tired counting how many times low hp attacker just died stepping on a needle), it is intel (you can say where attackers come from, because you can see Gu pictograms on your HUD. Kapkan traps are also contain electronic components, but he can't see his traps), it is nearly invisible so you can be sure almost all of them will work. It is limiting enemies, they can't sprint, they can't plant, they have to put a needle out which makes them super vulnerable. It is 8 of them. You see? Damage over time is so insignificant part of it.
    when her trap is set off, anyone that is effect by it shouldn't be able to aim for 3~5 sec, first, that would make her a great counter to Rusher, second, that would probably make her more reliable.
    Devastatingly op. Her Grzmot mines are almost impossible to take down without grenades or Twitch drone. Ela can place them far/high enough to be not destroyed by IQ, it has 4m of trigger radius. Getting into the site with a hip fire only? Madness.
    When Caveira interrogate somebody, her position should also be revealed for half of the attacker's reveal time!
    Doesn't make any sense. Especially when Caveira is the only member of her team left alive.
    One more thing is that why not just give wamai 5~6 Mag-Net System to start with? I know you he is made for anchoring, but that just kinda force player to stay onsite, the only reason Wamai will never replace Jager is because that sometime stay onsite is not the best option, I mean come one I think Jager can probably anchor as well as Wamai on site. I just don't see the point of him getting his gadget over time. For Lesion I can understand that, but Wamai I feel like is complete different. At least Give Waimai 3 Mag-Net System to start with.
    He's fine. He can roam the building and place his gadgets when and where they are needed right in that moment instead of preplanning and setting them beforehand. I don't know why are you thinking he's forced to stay onsite, some players can hold the entry points by tossing magnets in outside areas.
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  8. #8
    "Bandit's generators are already underperforming in comparison with Rtilla and Mute's jammers in many aspects. Why would you make it worse?"

    I don't know who Rtilla is but I agree that Bandit's generators is underperforming against Mute's jammers, however, the purpose of the two's gadget is different, one mean to destroy enemy's gadget, and mute's purpose was to stop breath and block enemy from gathering further information. While bandit doesn't need any nerf, but its weakness can't be fix because of its limitation of placement for its gadget. Maybe, there could be change done for Bandit to step up the game.

    "Lion's drone is easely avoidable by any character, does nothing special. Many players don't even know how to use it properly, so its functionality right now is to prevent early runouts. It should be buffed, not nerfed. As a defender, why would I care about a device that forces me to sit still for 2 seconds? I can rotate my camera, hold the angles. And even if I get detected it's not a Caveira's wallhack, it's just a regular ping, I'm in a different place already."

    I wanted some change for Lion, I didn't said specifically it was a NERF, ofc not many people know how to use his ability properly because sometime you que into team where they don't make any call out for useful information, which cause player who use Lion use the ability for their own benefit.

    "Ok, but the concussion duration should be reverted back to 10 seconds and visual distortion strength should be twice harder to compensate. He won't be that effective at disrupting a plant as before, but buffing his blast strength would keep his supportive role almost intact. I would miss blasting two targets one after another though. No. Just no. You wanna make Yokai shooting only once, that's enough for any other player to notice it after that and to destroy, because poor drone would have no way to defend itself. Being unable to relocate for 20 seconds is not a nerf, it's a pure crippling of Echo. If you can't deal with an operator, it's not a reason to ruin him for everyone."

    Maybe 8 seconds, 10 seconds is way too long! Plus, they can always buff the Sonic wave burst recharge time. Is not like I can't deal with Echo, but if you look at his ban rate, is all the way up to the rooftop.There is change need to be done. Plus, I haven't seem Echo wasn't ban in Rank except for 1~2 matches.

    "Lesion's problem is not his Gu mines damage. It is the wide variety of things he can do, the variety of niches he can fill.
    It is damage (pretty low, but I'm tired counting how many times low hp attacker just died stepping on a needle), it is intel (you can say where attackers come from, because you can see Gu pictograms on your HUD. Kapkan traps are also contain electronic components, but he can't see his traps), it is nearly invisible so you can be sure almost all of them will work. It is limiting enemies, they can't sprint, they can't plant, they have to put a needle out which makes them super vulnerable. It is 8 of them. You see? Damage over time is so insignificant part of it."

    Well, then his ability to see the Gu mines on the screen should definitely be removed.

    "Devastatingly op. Her Grzmot mines are almost impossible to take down without grenades or Twitch drone. Ela can place them far/high enough to be not destroyed by IQ, it has 4m of trigger radius. Getting into the site with a hip fire only? Madness."

    There is always a thing call VERTICAL plays, which a lot of player doesn't use these days cause all they want to do is rush get and get kills.

    "When Caveira interrogate somebody, her position should also be revealed for half of the attacker's reveal time!"
    "Doesn't make any sense. Especially when Caveira is the only member of her team left alive."

    Well, there should be something done to Cav's ability because it is disgustingly strong! Caveira shouldn't be able to turn on silent step after interrogation.

    He's fine. He can roam the building and place his gadgets when and where they are needed right in that moment instead of preplanning and setting them beforehand. I don't know why are you thinking he's forced to stay onsite, some players can hold the entry points by tossing magnets in outside areas.

    I agree, Wamai is fine, however, if you roam with Wamai and die early game, which doesn't really benefit the team. With Jager is different, eventho it ain't good for the player to die early during a match, but at least his stuff is pre-place for the benefit of the team.
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  9. #9
    xcel30's Avatar Senior Member
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    Gu mines were made also to counter shields, just letting it do 10-15 damage would make montagne stronger, also it would just cause frustation from rushers takign too much damage from. Also Ela mines were nerfed because it took control away from players to the point they would 100% lose gunfights simply because controls wouldn't respond to them, this is the worst thing you could ever suggest to ela, you are making it so she can 100% kill three people per round
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  10. #10
    I don't know who Rtilla is but I agree that Bandit's generators is underperforming against Mute's jammers, however, the purpose of the two's gadget is different, one mean to destroy enemy's gadget, and mute's purpose was to stop breath and block enemy from gathering further information.
    Rtilla is Kaids device.
    I know about their purpose. But you can count how many things Mute counters, from breeching charges and Fuze clusters to Dokkaebi calls. He can set jammers around the corner in safe places and never harms teammate gadgets. Bandit, on the other hand, is good for bandit tricking only. Batteries would break almost any electronic device, so Maestro won't be able to put his cameras on electrified wall. Electrified barbed wire deals minimum damage to operators, so it's hard to counter shields that way. Even if we assume they are so blind to not shoot down exposed batteries.
    A way to nerf Bandit is to change its deploy method to something similar to Kaid, When Bandit put down his gadget, it should take 2~3 sec before it can activate.
    While bandit doesn't need any nerf
    I don't understand you then. You say he doesn't need a nerf, but propose one for him.
    Maybe 8 seconds, 10 seconds is way too long! Plus, they can always buff the Sonic wave burst recharge time. Is not like I can't deal with Echo, but if you look at his ban rate, is all the way up to the rooftop.There is change need to be done. Plus, I haven't seem Echo wasn't ban in Rank except for 1~2 matches.
    The effect quickly wears off and it's not that hard like Ela's. It only getting worse if you try running away. It doesn't restrict you from sprinting. It's like the most harmless debuff the game has so it had initial 10 seconds for a reason.
    Ban pick rate has nothing to do with the operator's strength. These are comfort bans. Devs reworked/nerfed Jackal, but he's still banned because people find him annoying. The really strong operators are those people pick in regular matches. You see Lesion every 3rd match. Maestro, Dokkaebi are also common. Echo is not in their company, people don't find him useful, especially on container and hostage.
    There is always a thing call VERTICAL plays, which a lot of player doesn't use these days cause all they want to do is rush get and get kills.
    Always? Well, I wish you luck trying vertical gameplay in basements or map segments with a concrete ceiling. Like in the Lab of Theme park. You can pick a different route ofcourse, but that would mean Ela just cut all of your other ways in.
    You can prevent rush by placing barbed wire.
    Well, there should be something done to Cav's ability because it is disgustingly strong! Caveira shouldn't be able to turn on silent step after interrogation.
    She's not that strong vs teams sharing intel. You never killed Caveira trying to interrogate your teammate in the room next to you?
    It is not like she's teleporting after interrogations. You can predict where she would appear next time from.
    I agree, Wamai is fine, however, if you roam with Wamai and die early game, which doesn't really benefit the team. With Jager is different, eventho it ain't good for the player to die early during a match, but at least his stuff is pre-place for the benefit of the team.
    He's not the only one. There's some sort of operators who better not being dead soon. Like Smoke or Doc. Wamai's gadget can grab more sorts of projectiles from a greater distance and unseen places, so his way of using devices would be more complicated. For a sake of balance.
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