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  1. #1

    Balance (devs must see)

    Lets look at The Division, that game has a good balance. You want dmg? Give up some electronics or armor. You want armor? Give up some dmg or electronics. You want electronics? Give up some armor or dmg.

    Now lets look at The Division 2:

    http://imgur.com/gallery/mvL2kdL

    There's your balance... 600K armor, 280K base dmg (even more with Premeditated), 3000 SP. But that's not the best part, this build allows you to heal yourself like crazy, just throw a firefly against a wall or against the ground and you'll get 20% armor back, wait for It 5 seconds and do It again while you chicken dance all over the place, you can also throw a hive there and with low cooldowns and wait for It to be destroyed and heal you another 20%, all of that healing thanks to the new Specialization.

    This is the DZ every ****ing day and Im tired of having to play with or against this bs:

    http://imgur.com/gallery/RKW46wB

    At this point I dont even care how you fix this, nerf the shotgun, nerf the armor, nerf the damn Specialization, I dont care, I already gave a lot of solutions which avoided a nerf but I just dont care anymore, just get this **** fixed already.

    And btw, the armor glitch-cheat is back:

    http://imgur.com/a/JHWzp1y
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  2. #2
    UbiFaveRED's Avatar Community Representative
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    Thank you, I've taken note of this thread.
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  3. #3
    NotSinister's Avatar Senior Member
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    oh boy here we go... be careful about how you ask for nerfs. While agree the Shotgun "meta" is both cheesy and annoying, but hey we wanted the 3-11-7 gone and it is what is. Players will naturally gravitate to the "best" build or most effective in PvP. At let us face it, the high armour shotgun build is currently
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  4. #4
    YodaMan 3D's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by tt_ivi_99 Go to original post
    Lets look at The Division, that game has a good balance. You want dmg? Give up some electronics or armor. You want armor? Give up some dmg or electronics. You want electronics? Give up some armor or dmg.

    Now lets look at The Division 2:

    http://imgur.com/gallery/mvL2kdL

    There's your balance... 600K armor, 280K base dmg (even more with Premeditated), 3000 SP. But that's not the best part, this build allows you to heal yourself like crazy, just throw a firefly against a wall or against the ground and you'll get 20% armor back, wait for It 5 seconds and do It again while you chicken dance all over the place, you can also throw a hive there and with low cooldowns and wait for It to be destroyed and heal you another 20%, all of that healing thanks to the new Specialization.

    This is the DZ every ****ing day and Im tired of having to play with or against this bs:

    http://imgur.com/gallery/RKW46wB

    At this point I dont even care how you fix this, nerf the shotgun, nerf the armor, nerf the damn Specialization, I dont care, I already gave a lot of solutions which avoided a nerf but I just dont care anymore, just get this **** fixed already.

    And btw, the armor glitch-cheat is back:

    http://imgur.com/a/JHWzp1y
    You can't expect balance, when the end result is to nerf everything into uselessness.
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  5. #5
    This all is not new and and I guess they can't or don't want to fix it.
    Just forget about pvp because they can't balance what they have createt.
    With every specialization we will get more and more broken gimmicks.
    In pve it is all fun as long as we get content but I gave up on pvp long time ago.
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  6. #6
    NotSinister's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Zimbo78 Go to original post
    This all is not new and and I guess they can't or don't want to fix it.
    Just forget about pvp because they can't balance what they have createt.
    With every specialization we will get more and more broken gimmicks.
    In pve it is all fun as long as we get content but I gave up on pvp long time ago.
    PvP isn't bad when you play player who want to PvP... those lobbies are rare. But it does happen, but in general most of the PvP community has left the ship sometime ago, not sure why I am still on board....
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Zimbo78 Go to original post
    This all is not new and and I guess they can't or don't want to fix it.
    Just forget about pvp because they can't balance what they have createt.
    With every specialization we will get more and more broken gimmicks.
    In pve it is all fun as long as we get content but I gave up on pvp long time ago.
    I consider this game's PvP main idea one of the best of all time honestly. The builds, the weapons, the skills, the talents, the playstyles, all of that offers so many different ways to play the game... I guess that's why I still play PvP.

    I wont give up on PvP as long as the devs keep improving it. When they dont care anymore I'll leave, give them time and they'll fix it, just like in Division 1.
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  8. #8
    Merphee's Avatar Volunteer Moderator
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    Originally Posted by tt_ivi_99 Go to original post
    Lets look at The Division, that game has a good balance. You want dmg? Give up some electronics or armor. You want armor? Give up some dmg or electronics. You want electronics? Give up some armor or dmg.
    I think what has to happen for this to occur is if they bring back the "main / minor attribute" philosophy, where (chest example):

    Main Attribute

    Weapon Damage / Armor or Total Health / Skill Power

    Minor Attributes

    Flat Health / Hazard Protection / Armor on Kill / Health on Kill
    Skill Haste
    Headshot Damage / Crit Chance / Crit Damage

    Or a mixture


    So you could have a super offensive chest piece with a main attribute of weapon damage, with headshot damage, crit chance and crit damage as minor attributes. This means you would have zero survivability investment on the chest. Or, you could go a more balanced route with weapon damage as a main, with flat health, skill haste and crit chance as minors. Ideally, you could move headshot damage to the main slot if you'd prefer to have weapon damage and headshot damage be a matter of choice.

    With main attributes, you'll have to choose between the holy trinity instead of being able to stack them. Course, Brand Set bonuses would still give you a bit of an edge, but those values are fixed. However, based on the screenshot in the recent SOTG, they might be going back to this philosophy.
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  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Merphee Go to original post
    I think what has to happen for this to occur is if they bring back the "main / minor attribute" philosophy, where (chest example):

    Main Attribute

    Weapon Damage / Armor or Total Health / Skill Power

    Minor Attributes

    Flat Health / Hazard Protection / Armor on Kill / Health on Kill
    Skill Haste
    Headshot Damage / Crit Chance / Crit Damage

    Or a mixture


    So you could have a super offensive chest piece with a main attribute of weapon damage, with headshot damage, crit chance and crit damage as minor attributes. This means you would have zero survivability investment on the chest. Or, you could go a more balanced route with weapon damage as a main, with flat health, skill haste and crit chance as minors. Ideally, you could move headshot damage to the main slot if you'd prefer to have weapon damage and headshot damage be a matter of choice.

    With main attributes, you'll have to choose between the holy trinity instead of being able to stack them. Course, Brand Set bonuses would still give you a bit of an edge, but those values are fixed. However, based on the screenshot in the recent SOTG, they might be going back to this philosophy.
    The bigger issue is the talent system and the skill cap/mod system. With talents you can add tons more damage just by having filler red rolls while god rolling armor. With skills you can reach well over 6000 skill power but since the moronic cap of 3000 forces very little investment, you get maxed out skill builds with 4 or less yellow rolls. Since they lowered cooldowns, you don't even need to invest in haste much if any. The my little pony school of accessible game design must have graduated right when this studio started D2...
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  10. #10
    Marriorqq's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by MutantCowboy x Go to original post
    The bigger issue is the talent system and the skill cap/mod system. With talents you can add tons more damage just by having filler red rolls while god rolling armor. With skills you can reach well over 6000 skill power but since the moronic cap of 3000 forces very little investment, you get maxed out skill builds with 4 or less yellow rolls. Since they lowered cooldowns, you don't even need to invest in haste much if any. The my little pony school of accessible game design must have graduated right when this studio started D2...
    To be honest: I don't like to remove the cooldown and change it to skill acceleration. (Players ask to learn from td1)

    However, it is true that many players respond to the difficulty of obtaining "rng" for electrical equipment. This is also the only two reductions in the previous revision to reduce the difficulty of equipment formation, and the other is the target object.
    At the same time after the revision, the adjustments to the split mines have also made it very easy to match the "high-efficiency" players with split mines.

    This indeed greatly encourages the hybrid configuration. The official did make some minor adjustments later: reducing the effectiveness of the skill plug-in, making a nerf of 3,11,7, and reducing the effect of pvp healing skills.

    The official purpose should be to remove the generalized hybrid configuration, which should be professional, so we have technicians.

    The problem you encountered is probably the maximum use of this talent, it seems a bit strong (50% increase in skill strength, restore 20% armor after destroying own skill objects)

    In some respects, I don't agree with the fact that players should easily win shotgun weapons in close combat. (Poor sub submachine gun seems to disappear? We have a new weapon talent of four blue, few people use its 300% weapon control)

    The hardness of this configuration is so high that other high-output configurations are difficult to knock down in one go, in conjunction with the popular "chicken dance". (And with abnormal state immunity)

    The anticipation of weapon talent and maternal love, so that the so-called double tube still has good damage (buff shotgun base damage and armor puncture)

    You have to get a configuration that is difficult to kill, and you have to grow output in the middle and late stages to have the advantage to suppress them.

    Some more on the list seem to fit:
    High armor m1a?
    High Armor a & 8?
    Berserker with high health configuration (250kup)?
    Short gun double tube with 3k shield?

    A simple adjustment is that the armor recovery of the nerf talent tree is in pvp (as in the Diamondbacks talent, there is armor recovery from 20%> 5%, in pvp? Although I do n’t know why such a high intensity nerf, even in pvp you Don't see Diamondbacks users, and has anyone praised it?)
    But other professional talent trees seem to have some strength in this position.
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