Shinobi is unplayble | Forums

[Vee63bMech]

Personally I like the range heavy attack gimmick (range gb from neutral needs to go in my opinion).

I think they should only keep his ranged heavys and sicklerain and design him a new moveset around these two things.

I was never a fan of the ranged heavy, too many times I've thrown that out trying to do a regular heavy and it usually ends up with a dead Shinobi and me just staring at the screen wondering why a quick tap of RT caused a ranged attack. One addition I would love on him are single dodge attacks. Hmm... I might have to draft up concepts of some.

[CamoFlash7]

I must say I find it a bit amusing, all the threads you agreed with him are only about minion killing animation and some artistic stuff but as soon as its about ingame balance and other pratical stuff it just goes down hill with him.

That's actually true...

[Valoredramack]

Of course he isn’t viable anymore but still he has the greatest mobility in game

How exactly does the Shinobi have the greatest mobility in the game?

His backflip was nerfed to near zero which now makes it vulnerable to guard-break as well as other interrupts; and the Shinobi is the only assassin in the game without a real dodge attack. Any other hero with a dodge attack can out-maneuver a Shinobi because his Kick does not function as an evasive dodge attack..

He does not have the greatest mobility because at a minimum he would need a working dodge attack to even compete for such a title. You can say that the Shinobi has the best sprint in the game and that's where his mobility advantage ends because everyone knows that the Shinobi is currently the easiest hero to kill in 1v1.

[Gaser.]

How exactly does the Shinobi have the greatest mobility in the game?

His backflip was nerfed to near zero which now makes it vulnerable to guard-break as well as other interrupts; and the Shinobi is the only assassin in the game without a real dodge attack. Any other hero with a dodge attack can out-maneuver a Shinobi because his Kick does not function as an evasive dodge attack..

He does not have the greatest mobility because at a minimum he would need a working dodge attack to even compete for such a title. You can say that the Shinobi has the best sprint in the game and that's where his mobility advantage ends because everyone knows that the Shinobi is currently the easiest hero to kill in 1v1.

The mobility has nothing to do with a dodge attack.

He still has the highest speed in the game and can keep constant distance to his opponent.

Not to mention after a missed kick you can cancel recovery’s with a charged heavy and evade or deflect the incoming attack if the enemy decides to throw a attack.

[Valoredramack]

The mobility has nothing to do with a dodge attack.

He still has the highest speed in the game and can keep constant distance to his opponent.

Not to mention after a missed kick you can cancel recovery’s with a charged heavy and evade or deflect the incoming attack if the enemy decides to throw a attack.

Obviously I disagree with your logic because mobility does not just mean speed, especially in a game of this nature. Mobility includes evasive capability and since we do not even see eye-to-eye on the meaning of the word, there is no point to debate this further. And "keeping constant distance to his opponent" isn't even a worthy advantage for a hero that can't afford to take a hit; plenty of heroes have lunges and movesets that allow them to close their distance, this is not unique to the Shinobi...for instance, the Shaolin can literally teleport to his opponent. The Shinobi's primary mobility advantage was being able to create distance to get away from the opponent's strike and then to re-engage, but the backflip is no longer functional since it was nerfed into oblivion.

[Gaser.]

Obviously I disagree with your logic because mobility does not just mean speed, especially in a game of this nature. Mobility includes evasive capability and since we do not even see eye-to-eye on the meaning of the word, there is no point to debate this further. And "keeping constant distance to his opponent" isn't even a worthy advantage for a hero that can't afford to take a hit; plenty of heroes have lunges and movesets that allow them to close their distance, this is not unique to the Shinobi...for instance, the Shaolin can literally teleport to his opponent. The Shinobi's primary mobility advantage was being able to create distance to get away from the opponent's strike and then to re-engage, but the backflip is no longer functional since it was nerfed into oblivion.

I would make the point that the hero with the double dodge has one of the greatest way evasion but okay.

All these gab closers are highly predictable and easy to evade.

Pre Nerf backflip wasn’t okay, it deserved a nerf.

[Valoredramack]

I would make the point that the hero with the double dodge has one of the greatest way evasion but okay.

A dodge attack is superior to the Shinobi's double dash so I don't know what you are talking about. The double dash is primarily used to launch the kick, not to evade. If you are close enough to try using the double dash for evasion, then you are also close enough to get guard broken as soon as you double dash, which is one of the reasons why it isn't good for evasion. The double dash might work against someone like you, but it is not effective when used against experienced players who understand how vulnerable the move is, same goes for the backflip.

[Vee63bMech]

A dodge attack is superior to the Shinobi's double dash so I don't know what you are talking about. The double dash is primarily used to launch the kick, not to evade. If you are close enough to try using the double dash for evasion, then you are also close enough to get guard broken as soon as you double dashl, which is one of the reasons why it isn't good for evasion. The double dash might work against someone like you, but it is not effective when used against experienced players who understand how vulnerable the move is, same goes for the backflip.

I'm going to have to agree with @Valoredramack on this, I've stated it in Post #19, Shinobi is no longer mobile. Mobility in a fight can't be gauged by sprinting speed. The mere fact that patch 2.12.1 nerfed a lot of mobility for everyone also doesn't help.

Escape Standardisation

Developer comments:

The following escape standardisation change 3 major things:

Opponents can no longer Roll away from many mix-ups without being vulnerable to Feint into Guard Break
Unlocking to escape combat is a bit slower and more dangerous than before
Opponents can no longer back strafe away faster than you can strafe forward
We believe that these changes will greatly open the door to more satisfying combat: it will reduce the ease of escape and avoiding combat, as well as make it much more difficult to stall out match-ups. It will still be possible to disengage in group fight modes, however it won’t be as safe of an option as it was before.

Roll/Guard Break

All Rolls are now vulnerable to Guard Break from 0ms – 333ms (from 0ms – 300ms)
Dodge is now vulnerable to Guard Break from 0ms-633ms (from 0ms – 600ms)
Branching from Dodge to Roll can now only be performed between 300ms-400ms (from 300ms – 500ms)
Guard Break immediately after a Feint is now 300ms (from 400ms)
Guard Break Counter now has a 300ms window (from 200ms). The actual Guard Break Counter will begin between 200ms-300ms depending on when you input the Counter Guard Break. This means if you input it immediately as before, it comes out at the same time – but you have a bit more grace period to input it.
Developer comments: Opponents can no longer Roll away from many mix-ups without being vulnerable to Feint Guard Break

Unlocking

When Unlocking, the branching to Out of Lock Roll or Sprint now requires 300ms (from 100ms)
When Unlocking, movement has been cut to 2m (from 4m) during the Unlock animation
When entering Lock, Lock requires 300ms (was different per Hero, between 200ms – 400ms)
When entering Lock, you no longer have Defense property (some Heroes had it between 100-300ms)
When entering Lock, you can Change Stance at 200ms (allowing you to be in the stance you want when the “entering Lock state” is complete at 300ms)
When entering Lock, movement is now 0, but you retain some velocity from the previous movement state.
Developer comments: Unlocking to escape combat is a bit slower and more dangerous than before

Combat Strafe

Backward Combat Strafe for all heroes have been capped at 5 units maximum. (If they were slower before, they haven’t changed.)
Forward Combat Strafe for all heroes have been capped at 6 units minimum. (If they were faster before, they haven’t changed.)
Developer comments: Opponents can no longer back strafe away faster than you can strafe forward

Roll Distance Standardisation

Roll distance has been standardized for every hero at 5m
Developer comments: Most Heroes already had a roll distance of 5m – but some Heroes were able to roll further. This was unnecessary, since at 5m you can roll out of Feat Area of Effects successfully. Some Heroes (such as Highlander, Raider, Shaman) had much smaller roll distances, and now we can ensure all characters have equal ability to escape Area of Effects.

All of these literally removed Shinobi's "Mobility" along with some of the older patches... Actually, I've documented all the "Mobility" nerfs before already, so here you go.

Title 1.08 (6/1/17):
Roll - [Bug Fix] Shinobi is now immune to Guard Break while rolling.
Deflect - [Bug Fix] Fixed a bug causing the Shinobi to get stuck in objects after performing a Deflect.

Live 1.08.1 (6/8/17):
Double Dodge can no longer connect to Guard Break during last 300ms.
Double Dodge Kick area of effect is now smaller.
Double Dodge Kick stamina cost increased to 20 (from 5).
Double Dodge Front Kick range reduced to 4m (from 4.75).
Double Dodge Front Kick Uninterruptible stance duration changed to 300 - 600ms (from 200 -600ms).
Double Dodge Side Kick startup duration increased to 600ms (from 400ms).
Double Dodge Side Kick Uninterruptible stance duration changed to 400 - 600ms (from 200 -400ms).

Developer comments: We’re adjusting Shinobi’s Double Dodge Kick in order to make it less dominant. The startup, range and area of effect adjustments should make it easier to dodge. We reduced the Uninterruptible Stance duration to make it more punishable with good timing. We’re also removing Guardbreak from Double Dodge as it was too easy to punish enemies anticipating to dodge the Kick. Finally, we’ve increased the stamina cost to prevent Shinobis from constantly spamming Kick – Back Flip.
Shinobi's kick does absolutely no damage, the change in the Uninterruptible stance is fine, the start up time increase makes it highly telegraphed for people to dodge, the stamina cost went out of proportion, 10-15 stamina would've been manageable with so many stamina draining Heroes in the current roster.

Title 1.09 (7/20/17):
[Bug Fix] Shadow Strike can now hit external targets.
Developer comments: Shinobi used to perform Shadow Strike on locked target, even after parrying an external attack, resulting in some extreme teleport situations. Now, Shadow Strike will target the source of the external attack after an external Parry.
[Bug Fix] Tackle can no longer knock down allies.
[Bug Fix] Tackle hit detection fixed.
Developer comments: Tackle hit detection had problems that we’ve fixed to make it more accurate. We’re also removing its ability to hit friendlies.
[Bug Fix] Sickle Rain now maintains current guard position.
[Bug Fix] Sickle Rain’s last 3 light attacks no longer display the Unblockable icons.
Developer comments: Shinobi had no active guard post Sickle Rain which could lead to issues, so we’ve fixed it in order to maintain the latest active guard. If you start Sickle Rain from a left guard, you’ll get back to left guard once the move sequence is over. We also removed the Unblockable icon on the last 3 lights. Since these attacks are not blockable and not parryable either, we’ve removed the icon to avoid confusion.
[Bug Fix] Removed Unblockable icons from Moveset description of the following moves:
Grab
Grab Kick Mix Up
Back Flip Grab
Developer comments: Shinobi’s Grab doesn’t actually have the Unblockable property. So we’re removing the Unblockable icons from the Moveset descriptions in order to avoid any confusion. This update was actually a good update that kept the essence of how Shinobi should be while actually fixing the bugs, good job on this patch Ubi.

Title 1.11 (8/15/17):
Deflect:
Teleport Kick range increased to 2.75m (from 2m).
Teleport Attack range increased to 2.75m (from 2m).
Developer comments: Shinobi’s Teleport follow-up moves will now connect if they are performed after Deflecting Orochi’s Storm Rush, Warlord’s Head Splitter Leap / Alternate, Raider’s Top Heavy, Valkyrie’s Hunter’s Rush. This update brought his close range attacks in line with the purpose of a deflect and made deflects viable.
Backflip:
[Bug Fix] In a mirror match-up, Shinobi can no longer Teleport if the enemy uses Back Flip after being Deflected.
Developer comments: There was a bug in which one Shinobi who would Deflect into Teleport against another Shinobi who would Back Flip away caused very disorienting character positioning and camera rotation for both players.
Guard Break:
[Bug Fix] Counter timing on long range Guard Break is now consistent with regular Guard Break.
Tackle:
[Bug Fix] Tackle can no longer hit enemies on higher ground.
Throws:
[Bug Fix] Fixed a visual bug where characters would appear to partially enter obstacles when Shinobi would use a Throw while they’re right beside the obstacle.

Live 1 (8/31/17):
Shinobi's Tackle sprint speed requirement increased to 5m/s (from 3m/s).
Developer Comments: Shinobi’s Tackle could be triggered very quickly after initiating Sprint because the speed requirement to enable the Tackle was low, causing exploits as we’ve seen on the Raider’s Stampede Charge. To avoid the same type of exploit on Shinobi, we’ve also increased the Sprint speed requirement to trigger Tackle.

Title 1.14.1 (10/5/17):
Double Dodge stamina cost decreased to 24 (from 29).
Double Dodge Kick stamina cost decreased to 10 (from 20).
Back Flip stamina cost decreased to 12 (from 17).
Front Roll stamina cost decreased to 12 (from 17).
Reflex Guard duration increased to 800ms (from 600ms).
**Developer comments: We have noticed some players have difficulty blocking with the Shinobi. We have increased the timing of the reflex guard to facilitate the block but the duration is still shorter than other assassins such as the Peacekeeper or the Orochi. We would like the playstyle of the Shinobi to focus on dodge and repositioning instead of block. The stamina reduction on some dodge moves is meant to promote this playstyle.
[Balancing] Health has been increased to 110 (from 90).
Developer Comments: Shinobi gets a small boost to survivability here. The intention is to help it live after a mistake in 1v1 Duels, or survive a bit more damage in group fights.
[Bug Fix] Reduced Shinobi's window to bump the opponent with the “Tackle” by 400ms.
Developer Comments: Note that this doesn't make the attack hit any earlier, but shortens the amount of time the Shinobi can "late hit" the opponent.
[Bug Fix] Shinobi now properly enters the unbalance state when they perform a “Grab” followed by a heavy attack and the opponent activates Revenge.
[Bug Fix] Ledge drop animation fixed.
[Bug Fix] Shinobi input for cancelling a charge edge case now fixed.
[Bug Fix] Added the bleed icon on “Teleport” light attack and “Teleport Kick” in the Moveset page.
[Bug Fix] Knees no longer clips through the ground during the “Epic Tantrum” emote.

Title 1.15 (11/14/17):
Guardbreak input buffer has been increased from Forward Dodge to make it more reliable.

Title 1.17 (12/18/17):
[Bug Fix] Opponent falls off the ledge if the Shinobi performs a "Grab" move near a ledge. This is now fixed.

Title 1.18 (1/18/18):
[Improvement] After any hit, the Shinobi did not reinitialize his charge when Heavy Attack is still held. Now the charge of the Shinobi works (in term of input) like the charge of the Conqueror for example.
[Improvement] Shinobi is now vulnerable to guardbreak during the last 400ms (from 200 ms) of the “Front Roll Kick” Recovery.
[Improvement] Shinobi could perform “Sickle Rain” combo on an ally. This is now fixed.
[Improvement] When you perform a “Tackle” then lock your target just before the impact, your target was interrupted instead of unbalanced. This is now fixed.
[Improvement] Reduced the tracking of the Shinobi’s “Tackle”.
[Bug Fix] Shinobi was able to use his “Super Sprint” without consuming stamina for a short period of time. This is now fixed.
[Bug Fix] Updated the “Super Sprint” animation on the Shinobi, fixed some animation issues going from “Sprint” to “Super Sprint” while climbing stairs.

Patch 1.19 (2/15/18):
Reduced backward movement during Parry Reaction to match other heroes.
Developer Comments: This is so heroes with low range attacks can still connect, such as Warlord’s Top Light.
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused the Shinobi to be interrupted by a Guard Break from an external attacker during the teleport behind his opponent after a deflect.
Developer Comments: This was inconsistent compared to other characters deflect. Now, a Guard Break cannot interrupt the Shinobi during all his teleport (when he is invisible) and during the 1st part of his recovery (before he starts to turn in the direction of his target). Technically during the double dodge Shinobi is invisible, yet can still be guard broken out of the invisible phase of the double dodge.
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that cause the Shinobi to send the opponent in the wrong direction after performing Charged Kick mix up while he is not locked to him.
Developer Comments: The rotation speed of the target was too slow and do not have time to face the Shinobi when he hits him. Now the rotation speed is changed to allow the target rotation to face the Shinobi.
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused the Shinobi Guard Breaks to sometimes affect the opponent behind his targeted opponent.

Live 1.21.2 (3/9/18):
[Bug Fix] We reverted the following change introduced in version 1.18
[Improvement] After any hit, the Shinobi did not reinitialize his charge when Heavy Attack is still held. Now the charge of the Shinobi works (in term of input) like the charge of the Conqueror for example.
Developer Comments: This change caused the Shinobi to be able to perform multiple Double Dodges in a row more easily than it was originally intended and made the timing to launch the kick much harder. Now, to restart a charge after any move or attack, the player must release and press the Heavy Attack button again.

Title 1.22 (4/19/18):
All Heroes:
[Adjustment] Back Dodge
Normalized all characters’ back dodge movement to 1.75m
Normalized the Back Dodge length to be 1100ms (which can be cancelled at 800ms).
Developer’s comment: Back dodge was too good, allowing players to easily and safely back out of combat. It also unfairly benefited fast Assassin characters. This nerf creates a standardized playing field for all back dodges across all characters, and makes it a tool that you now have to evaluate when to use. This goes against his "MOBILE" moniker, THE VERY THING THAT IS SUPPOSED TO SET HIM APART from the other Assassins. It also broke the ability to dodge backwards to force an opponent to dodge after you, and then dodge forward and kick. Yeah, it was a useful double dodge... That can no longer be done, because now it forces him to roll away instead of double dodge. you can now only DD left, right and forward, no more back and then forward. It's hard to understand, because if Berserker's niche is Uninterruptibles, and Shinobi's is supposed to be Mobility, why strip him of the very thing that makes him unique beside the useless ranged attacks?
[Adjustment] Deflect
While performing a successful Deflect, you have the “Deflect Defense” property instead of "Normal Block Defense” property, now allowing you to follow with another Deflect.
Slightly reduced the movement during the Deflect.
Developer’s comment: We noticed that using Deflect against multi-hit moves like Berserker's Zone Attack didn't feel as good as we hoped, since you Deflect the 1st hit but then are forced to automatically Regular Block the next 3 hits. Now, if you Deflect the 1st hit you'll be able to Deflect subsequent hits, including incoming hits against external attackers. We reduced the sideways movement so that you're more in-place, allowing you to count 4 Deflects against Berserker Zone Attack before launching your counter-attack. Shinobi's Teleport was made slightly later so that it didn't get beaten by multi-hit attacks.
[Adjustment] Shinobi Backward strafe speed reduced by 30%
**Developer’s comment: This is meant to be coupled with the global back-dodge nerf. We intend for characters to be less effective at avoiding combat. Again this goes against being "MOBILE", and even goes as far as contradicting your own Dev's words in Title Patch 1.14.1, "We would like the playstyle of the Shinobi to focus on dodge and repositioning instead of block. The stamina reduction on some dodge moves is meant to promote this playstyle." Just scroll back up and read it for yourselves if you don't believe me, or even better, go read the actual patch notes on the For Honor website.
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused the Shinobi to perform an Out of Lock attack after a “Tackle” even after locking on his opponent. In this case, the “Sickle Rain” was not available after a “Tackle”.
Developer’s comment: Now, when you lock during a “Tackle”, at the end of the “Tackle” the Shinobi will enter in his lock behavior. Therefore, if the Shinobi attacks, he will make his normal attack, which is the normal behavior when you enter into lock.
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused the opponent to not perform external parries after parrying the Shinobi’s “Charged Heavy’s”. When a character parries the “Charged Heavy”, he can now auto-parry an external attack.
Developer’s comment: Parry on the Shinobi “Charged Heavy” has now the same property than other parry. When a character parries the “Charged Heavy”, he can now auto-parry an external attack.
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused a “White Shield” feedback to appear on the Shinobi after parrying a “Charged Attack”.
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused the Shinobi to have no feedback when a Guardbreak fails due to the opponent being invulnerable (for example during an attack). We added the same feedback you have during a normal Guardbreak in the same situation.
[Bug Fix] Kick now correctly checks if the opponent should be put into the specific hit reaction.

Title 1.23 (5/17/18):
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue with the Shinobi to stand up too quickly after having his Long Range Heavy attack parried.
Developer Comments: The falling to the ground animation was increased to 800ms (from 500ms). It is now the same duration than the Unbalance animation. Seeing as how he's light and supposed to be mobile staying down for 1 heavy would've been acceptable, but he's actually on the ground long enough for 2 heavies from Shugoki now.
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused the Shinobi to sometimes miss the “Teleport Light Attack” when performed against specific attacks, for example the “Headsplitter Leap” of the Warlord. The range of the “Teleport Light Attack” after a Deflect has been increased to 3m (from 2.75m).
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused the Shinobi to become “Unbalanced” after being parried even if his opponent is interrupted and does not perform the parry.
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that allowed the Shinobi to perform a “Deflect” into a “Teleport Light Attack” even after going OOS during the “Deflect”.

Title 1.26 (8/2/18):
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused the Shinobi to be unable to Counter Guard Break after Heavy Finishers is parried.

Title 2.03.0 (12/13/18):
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that allowed the Shinobi kick an opponent affected by Jiang Jun’s “Dou Shi’s Choke”.
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that prevented the Shinobi's “Teleport Kick” and “Teleport Light Attack” to hit after deflecting Jiang Jun's Sprint attack.

Title 2.04.0 (01/24/19):
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused the Deflect to not cause any damage to Hyper Armor.

Title 2.06.0 (03/07/19):
Slide Tackle now starts to hit at 600ms (from 300ms)
Zone Attack’s 3rd strike can now be feinted.

Title 2.10.0 (03/07/19):
[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue with Shinobi being unable to cancel his second Dodge into Attack if the player queued a stance change right before the Dodge.

Title 2.11.0 (07/25/19):
Stance Change Standardized to other Reflex Guard Heroes' time of 1100ms (from 800ms)
In all honesty, "Reflex Guard", no matter which Assassin used, is no longer a reflex. Merriam Webster defines REFLEX as an action that is performed as a response to a stimulus and without conscious thought... At 1100ms that is delayed, not reflexive.
Long Range Grab no longer beats Revenge Activation

Sprint Slide:
Only has active hit frames for 400ms (from 600ms) You're literally halfway through the opponent’s legs before the slide actually hits now, for a huge stamina loss on top of it. Usually you get light tapped or GB out of it before the slide even connects.
No longer beats Revenge Activation
Victim can now activate Revenge during the hit

Uninterruptible Stance:
The following Moves no longer have Uninterruptable Stance:
Backflip
Roll
Double-Dodge Kick
Kick-After-Deflect
Kick-After-Roll
Sprint Slide
Sickle Rain (including on Victim)
Developer comments: Shinobi is already hard to hit, so we want to make Shinobi more vulnerable when hits happen. “Sickle Rain’s” change to be interruptible also follows our recent changes to Shugoki’s “Demon Embrace” - making bind moves interruptible on hit makes them less frustrating. Wrong, he is not hard to hit. Weak attacks, short chains, reduced mobility, delayed guard, unbalanced for far too long, useless range attacks; I actively avoid ranged attacks because it's guaranteed to leave him unbalanced, dodge delay makes his deflect useless now... In summation the movement and dodge nerfs with the guard changes and lack of uninterruptibles makes it easy to hit Shinobi. Not being uninterruptible, Sickle Rain never finishes anymore because everything will pull you out of it, and lets be real, Sickle Rain was his most dangerous move, high risk-high reward, even though unlike everyone else, it only targets one target at a time and doesn't have the ability to hit multiple people surrounding him. It's the longest startup on a heavy attack I've seen and the most work to even set up for it, and now it's not even viable in the gankfest that is FH, not to mention it's one of the attacks that cause bleed in his kit, and since I'm talking about bleed, let's not forget most bleed attacks can stack and his doesn't. His backflip now only moves him about the same distance as taking one step back, he might as well be doing a backflip in the same spot. Double dodge kick... Actually from the breach match I just had... It is now useless as that was his only opener, and without Uninterruptible, opponents don't even bother trying to dodge it anymore and simply light attack you right out of it. Heavy feint into deflect? Forget about it, all the timing changes make it to where his deflect is near impossible to pull off. At this current point he has no ability to survive a fight against even the Pikemen in Breach. Imagine being 1 hit killed by Jormungandr because of stamina drain, delayed guard/dodge, being easy to unbalance, and having the healthpool of a fly. No real ability to attack, defend, or counter. This is the current state of Shinobi, utterly broken.

We can safely say that his lack of "Mobility" is not the observation of players, rather it has been documented by the developers and posted as Patch Notes to say without a shadow of a doubt that Shinobi is no longer "Mobile".

[Vee63bMech]

Also, @Gaser. I'm not trying to attack you or call you out on anything, so please don't take it that way, I know that your top 4 Heroes used includes Shinobi according to FHtracker.com



You have a lot more time with Shinobi and FH in general than me according to FHTracker which I doubt has been updated recently, and my views may be different as I'm playing on XB1 where as you're playing on PC, feel free to look up my stats as well, I've nothing to hide nor am I the best player click this link to view: My Stats,


These are my stats according to FHTracker same as your's it hasn't updated mine either.

Here it is directly from FH Barracks as well:


This isn't a who's better than who or anything, I'm merely pointing out that to reinforce the notion that neither of us are complete noobs that picked up the game while it was free, nor do we just want a casual play experience overhaul.

FH was made to be a difficult and technical game like back when it was first released.

I'm not sure about you, but that was the thrill of it for me, learning each character's unique talents and abilities, their strengths and weaknesses. Everyone is so standardized now that there is no longer any uniqueness to anyone.

There are factual changes that's been made that can't be refuted as it's already been documented. Including changes that weren't documented like the backflip nerf.

We can't expect to have a rework of a character if there is an issue that's been documented and have players saying that the issue doesn't exist. That's kinda like knowing that there are hidden service fees from cell phone and cable providers, but pretending like everything is ok and just paying it. In the end we just hinder and make things worse for ourselves.

[Gaser.]

This isn't a who's better than who or anything, I'm merely pointing out that to reinforce the notion that neither of us are complete noobs that picked up the game while it was free, nor do we just want a casual play experience overhaul.

Of course, Im aware of that and I dont think that way.

FH was made to be a difficult and technical game like back when it was first released.

I'm not sure about you, but that was the thrill of it for me, learning each character's unique talents and abilities, their strengths and weaknesses. Everyone is so standardized now that there is no longer any uniqueness to anyone.

I can see and understand you viewpoint as someone who pretty much played every hero by now to atleast rep 5, but correct me if Im wrong with my next statment.

But to a certain way I think every hero needs to get standardized a bit, stuff like everyone now a days having atleast 500ms lights (RIP Highlander).

We advance in our skill and so needs the game to do the same.

There are factual changes that's been made that can't be refuted as it's already been documented. Including changes that weren't documented like the backflip nerf.

We can't expect to have a rework of a character if there is an issue that's been documented and have players saying that the issue doesn't exist. That's kinda like knowing that there are hidden service fees from cell phone and cable providers, but pretending like everything is ok and just paying it. In the end we just hinder and make things worse for ourselves.

I think its a good point to end this discussion here. (Not meant in a mean way)

I would say we should all get optimstic in to next year, the devs mentioned that they want to focus more on reworking with the help of testing ground.

I know I maybe sound bland and to optimstic. (But In a sick way I kind expected for them to gutter shinobi and then rework him, thats a thing Ubi likes to do. Is it good? No. But I guess its there way.)