1. #1

    MP5 is in desperate need of a recoil nerf.

    I still don't understand why rook and doc, the two defenders with the most survivability, get to use a no recoil acog weapon. Same with Echo obviously.

    Maestro's gun is insanely strong, but at least it's geared around mid range engagements. Same with the tcsg12. The recoil is so low on the mp5 that you can make mid auto fire adjustments on cross map peaks while having a high survivability and the potential to heal yourself.

    I have a 2.55 and a 2.5 k/d respectively with doc and rook, 78% win rate on rook, which is so far ahead from my average k/d playing at plat 1/diamond. Most players hover around 40% headshot rate, and unless you get a headshot, you aren't beating Doc in a long range engagement. On top of Rook's insane fragging utility, he has a utility that benefits every player on your team in engagements that don't result in a headshot, which, as we discussed before, is roughly 50-65% of engagements. That alone is an exceptional ability, underappreciated by most players. Guy doesn't need the easiest gun on defense on top of it.
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  2. #2
    xcel30's Avatar Senior Member
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    Because they made the SMGs mostly pea-shooters, if the SMG has ACOG it's a peashooter, if it doesn't have an ACOG then it either hits very hard or has some insane ROF such as vector or C1. If you remove the recoil from the MP5 you will have a gun that does barely any damage, doesn't have that high of ROF and also has bad recoil, pretty much making the entire gun bad. They decided that the point of SMGs is to be very controllable weapons that lose out to ARs pretty fast in distance. MP5 still obey that rule, and if anything they being 3 armor is actually disavantage in high levels where people headshot more often since it just make them easier head targets
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  3. #3
    Originally Posted by xcel30 Go to original post
    Because they made the SMGs mostly pea-shooters, if the SMG has ACOG it's a peashooter, if it doesn't have an ACOG then it either hits very hard or has some insane ROF such as vector or C1. If you remove the recoil from the MP5 you will have a gun that does barely any damage, doesn't have that high of ROF and also has bad recoil, pretty much making the entire gun bad. They decided that the point of SMGs is to be very controllable weapons that lose out to ARs pretty fast in distance. MP5 still obey that rule, and if anything they being 3 armor is actually disavantage in high levels where people headshot more often since it just make them easier head targets
    I think if the recoil was nerfed the damage per shot would obviously have to be raised. I don't think the damage mitigation dropped off the core problem of the mp5, it being the easiest headshot gun in the game on characters with high survivability.

    Even at the highest levels of play, people don't headshot nearly as much as you would think. CTZN has a 48% headshot accuracy. Shaiiko has a 57%.. Those are the BEST fraggers in the world. Most people are down in the high 30s low 40s even at diamond.
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  4. #4
    xcel30's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Temdee. Go to original post
    I think if the recoil was nerfed the damage per shot would obviously have to be raised. I don't think the damage mitigation dropped off the core problem of the mp5, it being the easiest headshot gun in the game on characters with high survivability.

    Even at the highest levels of play, people don't headshot nearly as much as you would think. CTZN has a 48% headshot accuracy. Shaiiko has a 57%.. Those are the BEST fraggers in the world. Most people are down in the high 30s low 40s even at diamond.
    Well ubi nerfed the damage so it would be harder to spawn peek and do long range engaments with it. If SMGs are meant to be the stable easy ot use guns with lower recoil nerfing recoil and increasing damage would just make them bad ranged ARs
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Temdee. Go to original post
    I think if the recoil was nerfed the damage per shot would obviously have to be raised. I don't think the damage mitigation dropped off the core problem of the mp5, it being the easiest headshot gun in the game on characters with high survivability.

    Even at the highest levels of play, people don't headshot nearly as much as you would think. CTZN has a 48% headshot accuracy. Shaiiko has a 57%.. Those are the BEST fraggers in the world. Most people are down in the high 30s low 40s even at diamond.
    Besides the odd defending operator everyone is stuck to SMG's on the defending side. These weapons don't carry the damage any attacker assault rifle carries but it carries a higher fire rate and that's how they make up for it but most times that rate of fire isn't as big of a difference as the damage. Xcel30 funny enough calls the MP5 the same as what I call it which is the "pea-shooter" lol and it's exactly that 27 damage with 800 fire rate which is on par with assault rifles but the damage is nearly half of what an attacker could be carrying.

    Your right on with the MP5 being very in control but It's like most weapons in this game I'd rather be running a 552 commando with a less fire rate and double the damage because I find that the easiest gun to headshot players with or even more so a gun that goes completely under the radar is twitch's F2/famas assault at 37 damage and 980 fire rate!!! That's a gun that might be the cleanest shooting gun in the game. The point I'm getting to is that the defenders are at a massive disadvantage in terms of what they can equip for guns and the MP5 is nothing special in comparison to anything.

    The MP5 It shoots nice for sure, and it will be used nonstop because of the removal of ACOG's on the defending side so Doc and Rook will always be picked and it leads to these ops being used to spawn peek which leads to more players engaging with these operators much more often so forget the recoil adjustment the next nerf will have a community up in arms over the ACOGS and you will eventually see these ops without an Acog with is unfortunate.
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  6. #6
    Pulu.'s Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Temdee. Go to original post
    I still don't understand why rook and doc, the two defenders with the most survivability, get to use a no recoil acog weapon. Same with Echo obviously.

    Maestro's gun is insanely strong, but at least it's geared around mid range engagements. Same with the tcsg12. The recoil is so low on the mp5 that you can make mid auto fire adjustments on cross map peaks while having a high survivability and the potential to heal yourself.

    I have a 2.55 and a 2.5 k/d respectively with doc and rook, 78% win rate on rook, which is so far ahead from my average k/d playing at plat 1/diamond. Most players hover around 40% headshot rate, and unless you get a headshot, you aren't beating Doc in a long range engagement. On top of Rook's insane fragging utility, he has a utility that benefits every player on your team in engagements that don't result in a headshot, which, as we discussed before, is roughly 50-65% of engagements. That alone is an exceptional ability, underappreciated by most players. Guy doesn't need the easiest gun on defense on top of it.
    First your kd with rook is 1.48 and with doc 1.55 and win rates are about 58%.

    Rook and doc is not so strong, doc is pure ranked frag operator. There is a reason why you dont see doc or rook in high competive play so much, they dont really bring utility and mp5 is strong weapon yes but nothing that superior.

    Tcsg12 is literally auto sniper its super strong compare to mp5.

    IMO Doc and rook are fine. Doc mains are most of the time players who can shoot really hard so sometimes it feels that mp5 is too strong but i dont see it like that.
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Pulu. Go to original post
    First your kd with rook is 1.48 and with doc 1.55 and win rates are about 58%.

    Rook and doc is not so strong, doc is pure ranked frag operator. There is a reason why you dont see doc or rook in high competive play so much, they dont really bring utility and mp5 is strong weapon yes but nothing that superior.

    Tcsg12 is literally auto sniper its super strong compare to mp5.

    IMO Doc and rook are fine. Doc mains are most of the time players who can shoot really hard so sometimes it feels that mp5 is too strong but i dont see it like that.

    You didn't check my seasonal, is what I should have specified. Mp5 is a LOT better than tcsg12. Significantly higher fire rate, significantly less recoil. THere's a reason why Kaid's win delta is in the gutter.

    AFAIK Rook was one of the highest win delta ops last season,and the HIGHEST the season prior.

    But for overall stats, a 1.48 and a 1.55 on a day one player who consistently plays at diamond is absolutely insane. That alone proves the consistent power of those two ops.
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  8. #8
    Pulu.'s Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Temdee. Go to original post
    You didn't check my seasonal, is what I should have specified. Mp5 is a LOT better than tcsg12. Significantly higher fire rate, significantly less recoil. THere's a reason why Kaid's win delta is in the gutter.

    AFAIK Rook was one of the highest win delta ops last season,and the HIGHEST the season prior.

    But for overall stats, a 1.48 and a 1.55 on a day one player who consistently plays at diamond is absolutely insane. That alone proves the consistent power of those two ops.
    I dont wanna offend you or anything or say you are bad etc, but you play so little ranked so its hard to really compare and you have played with doc one hour in this season and you have 13kills with him and 5 death, so that doesent really prove anything. Example i have 1.83 kd with nokk but i have play with her same amount time than you, its so little time that it doesent mean anything.

    If you really think mp5 is better than tcsg12 idk. People ofc have own opinions but i dont see it, i think tcsg12 is almost superior if you compare it to mp5. Tcsg12 is almost "broken", its super powerful when its on right hands and you dont even need right hands really with it.

    check the video 4.44 time and there is that "autosniper"

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  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Pulu. Go to original post
    I dont wanna offend you or anything or say you are bad etc, but you play so little ranked so its hard to really compare and you have played with doc one hour in this season and you have 13kills with him and 5 death, so that doesent really prove anything. Example i have 1.83 kd with nokk but i have play with her same amount time than you, its so little time that it doesent mean anything.

    If you really think mp5 is better than tcsg12 idk. People ofc have own opinions but i dont see it, i think tcsg12 is almost superior if you compare it to mp5. Tcsg12 is almost "broken", its super powerful when its on right hands and you dont even need right hands really with it.

    check the video 4.44 time and there is that "autosniper"


    I've played over a thousand matches of ranked lol.

    Now, instead of watching a silly subjective youtube video, we can look at actual facts. Y3S4 win deltas:

    https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/r...ers_342847.png

    https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/r...ers_352500.png

    https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/r...der_347919.png

    What do we see here? At plat and diamond ranked games, the higher skill threshold (Top ~8% of player base) That rook has consistently been one of the highest win delta characters. Why is that?

    Well, I'd like to wager it's because you're giving a character with a high damage reduction percentage (3 armor + 20% reduction) a gun that is trivially easy to use.
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  10. #10
    Pulu.'s Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Temdee. Go to original post
    I've played over a thousand matches of ranked lol.

    Now, instead of watching a silly subjective youtube video, we can look at actual facts. Y3S4 win deltas:

    https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/r...ers_342847.png

    https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/r...ers_352500.png

    https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/r...der_347919.png

    What do we see here? At plat and diamond ranked games, the higher skill threshold (Top ~8% of player base) That rook has consistently been one of the highest win delta characters. Why is that?

    Well, I'd like to wager it's because you're giving a character with a high damage reduction percentage (3 armor + 20% reduction) a gun that is trivially easy to use.
    You have playes 55matches on this year this is what i mean. Its cool that you are diamond, good for you man, never got that myself but end of the day you have play so little in diamond it doesent IMO prove anything. Again if you watch high level of play competive scene (face it and esl) doc and rook are not so good they are not bad in anymeans but far from op.

    So you say that Frost is most op operator in game if we watch those stats or that smoke is one of the worst operator in game?

    The mp5 is an amazing gun, but almost every gun on offense is better than it. It's an overall good gun with above average stats on everything with an acog, but that doesn't make it OP. Twitch's gun has 980 rpm with 7 more damage than the mp5. The only time you should win a gunfight against a twitch with an mp5 is if you have better aim or outplay her.

    Again you only look gun stats, rook and doc doesent really bring utility to team if you compare to example lesion, jäger, bandit, smoke, maestro, echo ect. Example MPX is not so good gun cos Valkyrie has so strong gadget. If you nerf mp5 doc and rook has nothing or then you have to buff p90 maybe.

    We have different opinions and exprience its okay, i respect your opinion.
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