Member
its better than its been but its still an issue. Like the OP said, some players just seem to live in revenge mode. the revenge gain is still very inconsistentOriginally Posted by Darkmight_cz Go to original post
Community Manager
Just removing it would be an extreme change, but revenge is something we're continuously monitoring.
I certainly hear where you're coming from re: the consistency, and I'll let the team know that a transparent way to see enemy revenge would be nice (and give a better sense of how much is being fed to opponents).
Member
The most ridiculous and broken thing about revenge is somebody pops revenge it is fine you fight and all that. When revenge wears off they are already ready to pop revenge again. It is like having a spare revenge. I'm very sure the guy didn't hit it get hit between revenge wears off and having revenge again. How is this allowed? It literally just happened few minutes ago to me. Revenge wears off boom another revenge. How can revenge fill up while he is already using it? I dont know if it is a bug. I experienced this a lot with Jorg LB and shaman. I don't know if it is related.
Banned
The way revenge is gained / activated / knocks down needs to be changed for the following reasons :
1- Why change the way revenge is gained ?
In For Honor, dodging some moves lead to a free guardbreak that can't be countered. Unfortunately, the guardbreak itself can proc revenge activation. This make it so whoever outplayed his opponent by getting the free guardbreak can't follow up with his punish from fear of being knocked down by the revenge activation.
TLDR : The way revenge is gained, it can punish whoever outplays the other player.
2- Why change the way revenge is activated ?
It makes absolutely no sense for 2 people fighting a single person to suddenly back away and start tip toeing around their target just because that target can activate revenge at any point, knock down someone who commited to an attack and massively punish them while they are on the ground.
There is something just WRONG about characters playing so defensively vs a single target because they fear some kind of "divine wrath of god".
3- Why change the knock down ?
Because some attacks in some situations can't be cancelled. Here is a perfect exemple that happens to me way too often. A stupid centurion do a zone attack in front of my Shinobi ... For those who dont know, after the 3rd hit of the zone, the Shinobi can get a free guardbreak on the centurion and he can't counter it. But here's the thing ... if that ranged GB activates the centurion's revenge meter to full, the Shinobi who input the sickle rain WILL NOT BE ABLE TO CANCEL IT FROM CLOSE RANGE. You can spam the cancel button, it's useless, the game wont let you cancel it.
Conclusion : The Shinobi outplayed the centurion, but it's the centurion who'll deal more than 50 damage to the Shinobi (jump attack with +% damage from revenge).
"But it's your own fault for doing a ranged GB when the centurion was about to get revenge", there is no indicator of how close your target is to getting revenge. No way of knowing if it's in 1 hit or 3 hits. Revenge is not intuitive, not immersive, makes no sense from a game design point of view.
------------------------------------
TLDR : Revenge is a mess at the moment. I think it was designed to let someone being ganked survive longer so he can hold while his team come help ... but in it's current state, revenge creates an unhealthy and not immersive feeling leading way too often to the wrong player getting punished for something.
Knowing Ubisoft, do you want to know what I think ?? I think revenge was released in its current state NOT for the good of the game, but for "youtube highlights" from streamers who help promote this game. It's a flashy mechanic creating "cool moments" and who cares if it's fair or well designed as long as it's "cool" to watch someone 1v4 other players.
Senior Member
My personal thoughts on how revenge should work is the following.
Revenge gain is now proximity based and will only gain if you are by yourself in an outnumbered situation. Changing it this way will make it so that if you are out numbered in a 1v2 you still get it, but if you happen to kill one of the enemies you are instantly no longer able to gain revenge. In addition to this, if one of your team members comes to help you in the proximity will make it so nobody is able to gain revenge.
Revenge is now a use it or lose it mechanic. Once you gain revenge, you better use it in 5 seconds or it's gone. This will make it so you can't just hold onto it and stall forever.
You no longer get a damage increase, but can't be stumbled or knocked down by bashes. Parries l/activation no longer knock the enemies down. This is a mechanic that should help you survive just a little bit longer to stall and wait for help. Not even remotely give you a chance at winning a 1v4. That should be done through skill and not because you went God mode.
Senior Member
Junior Member
Member
Revenge the way it is has also been bothering me for the longest time, often ruining the game for me, and not just for the inconsistent gains. It often punishes tactical thinking and decisions in 4v4 modes, ... say a teammate is defending (or trying to capture) an important zone against enemy player, your team needs this zone for any good reason, like to keep you from going breaking. Or an archer spot, whatever. The rest of enemy team is distracted with something else (or dead), so you go HELP your teammate and try to get that zone as fast as possible because you may not have an opportunity like that again or any time soon depending on how the game has been going. And boom, you and your teammate get punished for this. Game waves at you with pointing finger upwards, saying "no no, strategic moves are not allowed" and boosts the enemy. This is even worse if your team has been heavily losing up to this point.
Because what happens next is, your opponent now turns into demigod, his health gets shielded, his attacks boosted damage, becomes uninterruptible, guardbreaks knockdown AND go trough attacks... (Boosted damage and uninterruptibility combined are my biggest issue), over and over long enough to kill you or until rest of his team shows up and the opportunity is gone.
So according to the game's (or some people's here) logic, you should just hope, thats it, hope that your teammate succeeds alone and fast enough and you should just go do something else. Its stupid decision to try be team player after all, right?
This is even worse and ultimately frustrating in games where revenge is helping/saving the team thats already crushing the opposing side, making comeback even less likely. (heavily losing team finally wins teamfight over archerpoint they desperately need, only for the last remaining enemy to start popping revenge over and over until friends spawn, now with the surviving team being low health and disadvantaged again, all thanks to revenge, and so on).
There is just so many issues with revenge, it might be in better spot than it has better been in the past, but that doesnt mean its not far Far from a spot where it actually should be. There are issues i didnt mention that others here posted already. (having revenge but purposefully not activating it, etc) And i agree with them.
--
What is ultimately wrong with revenge is the way it is invented/principle behind it, id say. It has some goods, but some notable bads, mainly that it punishes strategic thinking in 4v4s and rewards people who carelessly get themselves into 1vX situations. Its offensive power is way too high. I think it should just work considerably differently. Like, maybe the point of it should be to help you get out of an unfair fight. Rather than helping you kill the 2+ opponents by yourself. Stalling is one thing, but helping you get kills with increased damage etc. is another.
It obviously wouldnt be called revenge anymore. Instead of turning you a temporary god, It just gives you a temporary shield and running speed, maybe enhances your rolling in some way and thats it. It can keep the knockdown effect on pop, helps with retreating. And to keep the popping from being abused as it is now, (breaking the fight flow) if thats still gonna be problem, it can make you unable to attack for a couple seconds, but make you invulnerable while youre disarmed. You can still use that shield to help you continue fighting and defend a capture point, (Its still something to help you, but not to just kill your opponents easier by making you temporary demigod, which is stupid i say) or you can use it for what the other new main point of it now is: retreat from unfair (or dishonorable) fight. If your opponents really wanna kill you, they are more out of luck if they dont do it "honorably".
It would also sort of fix the issue of ruining/punishing strategic thinking and teamplay (aiding a teammate) in mode like breach, or causing losing side to lose even more, because a really good enemy player sitting on archer point just wont die thanks to revenge, etc.
In my opinion, revenge needs heavy changing/replacement. I often wonder if the game would be more pleasant without it, and if so, then by how much.
Junior Member
Absolutely not. Revenge is an excellent tool to give yourself an advantage when you are being ganked. Truth be told, if revenge is a big problem for you in your matches, then maybe consider not brainlessly spam attacks on an opponent, and play smart. Revenge is in the best shape it has ever been.Originally Posted by Erhanninja Go to original post
Member
Revenge is a problem even in a fair 4v4 fight aswell, in my dominian games i have seen an opponent purposely walk into a zone alone with my team in it in a 4v1 situation and farms revenge while his team waits outside and once he has it ready his whole team comes in with a massive advantage!
The current revenge ends up reward the team thats passive and it really ruins a otherwise team vs team fight
