Senior Member
Hmm. I guess thanks to his punishes, Shinobi might be way above Zhanhu.Originally Posted by Valoredramack Go to original post
Doesn't mean I like where he stands right now - the opposite. And even if some praise his viability in 4's, Shinobi is very unfun to play. But better talk about this in a Shinobi thread.
Anyway, Berserker, Shaman and Gladiator are the strong picks, monk is a fun one that feels rather different but is not good at dealing a lot of damage fast. PK is underrated btw, I think she matches monk in strength. Not that it means much. Being in the middle of the assassin pack essentially means the hero isn't far from trash in a lot of matchups.
Senior Member
Did you try to play him ?Originally Posted by AmonDarkGod Go to original post
Saying he is still ok if played optimally only means running arround avoiding most fight, fishing for range GB and turtling in order to maximize your high parry/deflect punish.
Shinobi has ZERO offense, zero unlike you consider 500ms lights and zone a good offense due to nothing in his kit outside of a kick now interupted 100% of cases if not used as a Dodge attack only. Meaning he cant do **** on PC and its only a little bit better on console cuz 500ms are safier there and his 4th healing feat.
Defense wise, he still has some decent option select but that doesnt make a heroe good... Glad always had one of the best option select too despite being among the trashiest hero since release before the recent buff.
He still has some absurd clunky things such as huge knock down on punished range attack or his double light having to be input before the 1st land which often offer light parry.
They nerfed him so hard that now you cant anymore use your kick into back flip bait game which was his Bread and butter in terms of fun and efficiency.
On the top of that he has the lowest HP in the game and reflex guard of course.
I would add that Shino always had a high learning curve before and despite being strong wasnt an easy win pick where you could just mash buttons with.
They just nerfed him so hard for the sake of a few players.
What Shinobi state is -
1v1 : bad
1vx : very bad
Group fights : bad
Xv1 : at best correct
Cleaning : zone is ok but he has no feats or HP to be a good midder so, bad
Rotation : good
Why do i say at best correct in gank ? Because outside of premade play Shino range GB was already difficult to perform before and its worst now. Performing a range GB needs a perfect timing in gank situation and you better not miss cuz it feed a TON of revenge.. i would even say forget it in 3v1 or more.. its only a 2v1 viable tool.
And even if you manage to properly land it from your 1st attempt, its not a cutscene anymore but as others only guarantee one external hit.. which is good but if you want a strong ganker they are far, far better choices on the game with better abilities in others area.
Shinobi is atm the most urgent hero to rework (once Cent is finished).
His kit doesnt even work plus is absolutly unfun now.
PS : sorry if the thread turns into a Shino one... but the op is about assassins so why not.
Junior Member
Banned
His "amazing ganking potential" is rivaled only by his horrendous anti-gank potential. When outnumbered, the Shinobi can't do ****. As a result, Shinobi suffer from being unable to carry a team of worthless teamates, thank you matchmaking randomness.Originally Posted by AmonDarkGod Go to original post
In card games, we'd call Shinobi a "win more card". Those cards are usually not picked first because you usually need cards that can reverse the state of the game or the tempo.
Conclusion : Saying Shinobi is a good ganker doesn't mean much since if you are in a position where ganking is possible, you are already winning. The true strength you want on your team is a teamate able to win some 2v1 and such, allow your team to make a come back.
Senior Member
Valore:
I disagree with you on multiple points:
1. Most people aknowledge a certain tier list's. Some parts of them might be totally wrong, but everyone understands there is a certain difference in power levels. What is certain, that most players who play, let's say, a Valkyrie, will know that their hero is in a worse state than Lawbringer or Black Prior, and in a better state than Orochi or Shinobi. I play pk, and while I certainly have my bias, I don't really feel bad when I clearly have the tier advantage, I don't have to prove to myself that I only defeat the Centurion I am facing because I am better. Of course, there are people with very fragile egos, they usually main top tiers and complain when they lose, but most of us accepts it's not always the case.
2. Hitokiri is certainly not the easiest hero right now. Sure, not the most complex either, but against anyone with a bash, you will have to run for your money.
3. Not every hero is able to catch people offguard. Most players play attention to their surroundings, something the minimap makes very easy to do, and they will notice someone is approaching them from behind and will try to defend themselves against it. Heroes with stealth are the only ones really suited for this, and if you do it well, you will be able to grab people. I can do it with pk's runing gb, which is far easier to see coming if not done exactly right, I don't think you should have a problem hunting down isolated or outnumbered enemies.
4. Allies tend to mess up your things regardless of the hero class (shugoki hug or centurion's ground punish), that's the main reason I chose to stick to pk, who has the triple stab, something just as easy to interrupt for both enemies and allies. As an assassin in Breach, you usually don't group up with people to buttonmash gank someone, that's not your job. You go for openings in group fights, which will certainly exist. Revenge is part of this, you have to pay attention to how much the opponent was hit, and how likely it is if you will trigger revenge. If you do, you just back off and repeat. Also, shino has very good feats as utility tools.
We.the.North:
Antigank is somethng not made for assassins. I sometimes pull off 1v3s, but it's a great mistake attacking big groups head on with an assassin. No assassin is really capable of dealing with multiple fairly competent people- in fact, a good ganking team will effortlessly tear up any hero. As an assassin, you will at least have a chance to lose them when you will have the revenge as an opening and run away. If you are blessed with bad team mates, the match is lost either way.
Community Manager
Junior Member
Originally Posted by Calcium_Boi Go to original post
Beserker is the best. He has a great dodge attack, unblockables, and Hyper Armor. Just takes some time to get his feint game down. I love Orochi but he's extremely difficult to play at high levels . He gets a bad rap because against new players who can't block lights he's super tough but once you get above about Rep 20 he is one on the toughest players in the game to main. Light spam on any platform will get you destroyed when you get your Reps up . Shaman is very good also, her mixups and soft feints are great. Nuxia is basically unplayable since the trap mechanic is pretty broken and all she can do is light spam. I would suggest Beserker , Shaman and Glad starting out and jump to Rochi or PK once you get your deflect and parry game down. Hope this helps
